Hello Mike I think you need to learn something about the Appropriate Technology approach, essentially technology as if people mattered, the necessary adjunct to Schumacher's "Small is beautiful - economics as if people mattered".
An introduction: http://journeytoforever.org/at.html Appropriate technology Generally seen as something for poor countries, but at least as appropriate in rich countries. Best Keith >Mike...during your neigborhood conversion from "neighborhood crank to having >a steady stream of visitors and questions about BD," are the neighbors >changing? If so, how? One of my concerns in my post in response to Keith >is that not everyone will have the ability/interest to set up their own BD >plant, as well as have access to feedstock. It seems to me, since you are >already set up with some kind of access to feedstock, you could be the new >neighborhood "gas pump." Don't you think??? Of course, once you, or >someone, becomes this person, the community necessarily transforms your >individual production into the need for an "industrial-scale process." In >fact, the existence of a community that demands the lifestyle provided by BD >or any fuel to run our machinery that gives us this lifestyle must >necessarily adopt "industrial-scale" processes. Don't you think?? >Presently, I do. Consequently, I'm especially interested in learning about >any size community that has developed/is developing "industrial-scale >processes (that) fit rational biofuels production," to use Keith's terms. >Another Mike > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:27 AM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List > > > > FWIW - I have not bought ANY petro products for almost a year now except > > for diesel on one long trip and the least amount of NG as possible for > > cooking and showers. I hope to go to BD heating for water, or get my BD > > generator running and use electric. I heat with wood. > > > > I went from being the neighborhood crank to having a steady stream of > > visitors and questions about BD > > > > M&K DuPree wrote: > > > >>Hi Keith...thanks so much for the links to info on Iogen and cellulosic > >>ethanol generally. This whole area is very new to me. Somehow I have > >>been > >>blind for most of my 54 years to the extent that my lifestyle and general > >>"world view" have been dependent upon and propped up by my dependence upon > >>oil as an energy source. All of sudden I am seeing how out of my control > >>my > >>life really is. And to tell you and everyone the truth, I'm damned > >>frightened, and angry, and depressed, and then...is that my .38 over > >>there??? Somehow I have been able to keep the madness of this world at > >>bay, > >>but no more, all because of rising oil prices and my subsequently felt > >>urgency to research and find alternative energy sources. This research > >>has > >>led me into the politics of the whole energy arena and ultimately a world > >>view that, when I include not just me and mine, but the whole freakin 6.5 > >>billion of us (and growing exponentially), has me pretty much freaked. > >>Just > >>another suburban kid gone over the edge (or perhaps, more accurately, come > >>back from having been over the edge into dreamland into the reality of > >>limited resources and the need for a stripped down lifestyle that takes > >>into > >>account the full extent of my actions). This side of the edge, however, > >>isn't something I can easily make my own, because, it appears to me, if I > >>am > >>going to be able to truly regain what little sense of my self I might > >>truly > >>possess, I must be willing to put my tent on my back and just simply begin > >>to wander and then keep wandering until I fall over dead (can't stop by > >>the > >>local Salvation Army for refreshment...that would only be dipping my toe > >>back over the edge into dreamland again). Is this clear...or am I coming > >>off as the probable lunatic I might really be??? > >> Anyway, so I am curious about your own comments. I'm still reading > >>through all the articles connected to the links you have shared, so maybe > >>my > >>questions will be answered along the way. Nonetheless, I want to ask them > >>here: 1) in regards to "how well industrial-scale processes fit rational > >>biofuels production," would you please explain in more detail? Also, > >>perhaps > >>lead me to a model industrial-scale process that DOES fit rational > >>biofuels > >>production? My immediate response to this has to do with a main point I > >>have observed in my own interest in making biofuel: that this is not > >>something me and all of my neighbors can do individually for various > >>reasons, but especially because of limited feedstock and difficulty of > >>distribution. Democracy does not extend to the realm of limited > >>resources. > >>I believe packaging of product for individuals has promoted this > >>appearance. > >>Consequently, it appears to me (and I could still be very blind on this > >>point), we need some level of industrial-scale processes; and 2) will you > >>please explain further how "gobbling up crop wastes" is done "at the > >>expense > >>of soil fertility maintenance?" Please understand, I am in NO WAY trying > >>to > >>be argumentative. I really am profoundly concerned about our world > >>situation today and how I can be on the helpful side of it all (knapsack > >>and > >>all???). I don't have that much time left on the planet, and I'd like to > >>go > >>down swinging. Thanks. Mike > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >>Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 1:17 PM > >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hi Mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Hi...I'd like to hear the list's opinion about the process developed > >>>>by Iogen to produce "cellulosic ethanol." Goldman Sachs announced > >>>>yesterday (May 1) an investment of $30million Canadian in the > >>>>company. Royal Dutch/Shell, Petro-Canada, and the Canadian Gov't > >>>>have also all partnered with or are supporting Iogen. > >>>> The first article below, by Sam Jaffe, an editor with The > >>>>Scientist magazine, discusses cellulosic ethanol as well as a fuel > >>>>cell developed by Lanny Scmidt. The second link is to the Iogen > >>>>website itself. Thanks. Mike > >>>>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0407.jaffe.html > >>>>http://www.iogen.ca/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>Here's some previous discussion: > >>> > >>>http://snipurl.com/pxs2 > >>>biofuel > >>>Search results for 'iogen' > >>>94 matches > >>> > >>>Ethanol from cellulose > >>>http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose > >>> > >>>Maybe it'll get off the ground now, it's been around for years and > >>>nothing happens. Like all the other ethanol-from-cellulose projects. > >>> > >>>What bothers me about it, other than how well industrial-scale > >>>processes fit rational biofuels production anyway, is that cellulose > >>>is widely regarded as "waste", but the soil that produced it might > >>>not think so. There's often plenty of cellulose about that isn't > >>>utilised and could/should be harvested, but if Iogen et al start > >>>gobbling up crop wastes at the expense of soil fertility maintenance > >>>then clean, green and sustainable biofuels won't be the result. > >>> > >>>Best > >>> > >>>Keith _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
