There are too many Mikes around here. I'm familiar with Schumacher though it's been years since I read it. I'm working on a modified square foot gardening plan now.
Other Mike: No. The immediate neighbors are MAD MAD MAD. They do not like: 1. 12 year old p/u truck 2. Trarped and stacked wood - quote "it's ugly" They also think freshly cut Oak stinks. 3. They don't like the wood smoke 4. They don't like my BD buddies coming by in 23 year old diesels 5. My garden is ugly "You've ruined my view". 6. My lawn is not perfect - I refuse to put weedkiller on it. 7. I build stuff and make noise. 8. I have rain barrels 9. I move oil in big barrels But, there is a lot of interest in the groups close to my neighborhood - the local Democrats, parents at my kid's school, people who ask about the stickers on my VW, other wood heat nuts, and friends. I'm working on a BD coop. for my area. Keith Addison wrote: >Hello Mike > >I think you need to learn something about the Appropriate Technology >approach, essentially technology as if people mattered, the necessary >adjunct to Schumacher's "Small is beautiful - economics as if people >mattered". > >An introduction: >http://journeytoforever.org/at.html >Appropriate technology > >Generally seen as something for poor countries, but at least as >appropriate in rich countries. > >Best > >Keith > > > > >>Mike...during your neigborhood conversion from "neighborhood crank to having >>a steady stream of visitors and questions about BD," are the neighbors >>changing? If so, how? One of my concerns in my post in response to Keith >>is that not everyone will have the ability/interest to set up their own BD >>plant, as well as have access to feedstock. It seems to me, since you are >>already set up with some kind of access to feedstock, you could be the new >>neighborhood "gas pump." Don't you think??? Of course, once you, or >>someone, becomes this person, the community necessarily transforms your >>individual production into the need for an "industrial-scale process." In >>fact, the existence of a community that demands the lifestyle provided by BD >>or any fuel to run our machinery that gives us this lifestyle must >>necessarily adopt "industrial-scale" processes. Don't you think?? >>Presently, I do. Consequently, I'm especially interested in learning about >>any size community that has developed/is developing "industrial-scale >>processes (that) fit rational biofuels production," to use Keith's terms. >>Another Mike >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:27 AM >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List >> >> >> >> >>>FWIW - I have not bought ANY petro products for almost a year now except >>>for diesel on one long trip and the least amount of NG as possible for >>>cooking and showers. I hope to go to BD heating for water, or get my BD >>>generator running and use electric. I heat with wood. >>> >>>I went from being the neighborhood crank to having a steady stream of >>>visitors and questions about BD >>> >>>M&K DuPree wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi Keith...thanks so much for the links to info on Iogen and cellulosic >>>>ethanol generally. This whole area is very new to me. Somehow I have >>>>been >>>>blind for most of my 54 years to the extent that my lifestyle and general >>>>"world view" have been dependent upon and propped up by my dependence upon >>>>oil as an energy source. All of sudden I am seeing how out of my control >>>>my >>>>life really is. And to tell you and everyone the truth, I'm damned >>>>frightened, and angry, and depressed, and then...is that my .38 over >>>>there??? Somehow I have been able to keep the madness of this world at >>>>bay, >>>>but no more, all because of rising oil prices and my subsequently felt >>>>urgency to research and find alternative energy sources. This research >>>>has >>>>led me into the politics of the whole energy arena and ultimately a world >>>>view that, when I include not just me and mine, but the whole freakin 6.5 >>>>billion of us (and growing exponentially), has me pretty much freaked. >>>>Just >>>>another suburban kid gone over the edge (or perhaps, more accurately, come >>>>back from having been over the edge into dreamland into the reality of >>>>limited resources and the need for a stripped down lifestyle that takes >>>>into >>>>account the full extent of my actions). This side of the edge, however, >>>>isn't something I can easily make my own, because, it appears to me, if I >>>>am >>>>going to be able to truly regain what little sense of my self I might >>>>truly >>>>possess, I must be willing to put my tent on my back and just simply begin >>>>to wander and then keep wandering until I fall over dead (can't stop by >>>>the >>>>local Salvation Army for refreshment...that would only be dipping my toe >>>>back over the edge into dreamland again). Is this clear...or am I coming >>>>off as the probable lunatic I might really be??? >>>> Anyway, so I am curious about your own comments. I'm still reading >>>>through all the articles connected to the links you have shared, so maybe >>>>my >>>>questions will be answered along the way. Nonetheless, I want to ask them >>>>here: 1) in regards to "how well industrial-scale processes fit rational >>>>biofuels production," would you please explain in more detail? Also, >>>>perhaps >>>>lead me to a model industrial-scale process that DOES fit rational >>>>biofuels >>>>production? My immediate response to this has to do with a main point I >>>>have observed in my own interest in making biofuel: that this is not >>>>something me and all of my neighbors can do individually for various >>>>reasons, but especially because of limited feedstock and difficulty of >>>>distribution. Democracy does not extend to the realm of limited >>>>resources. >>>>I believe packaging of product for individuals has promoted this >>>>appearance. >>>>Consequently, it appears to me (and I could still be very blind on this >>>>point), we need some level of industrial-scale processes; and 2) will you >>>>please explain further how "gobbling up crop wastes" is done "at the >>>>expense >>>>of soil fertility maintenance?" Please understand, I am in NO WAY trying >>>>to >>>>be argumentative. I really am profoundly concerned about our world >>>>situation today and how I can be on the helpful side of it all (knapsack >>>>and >>>>all???). I don't have that much time left on the planet, and I'd like to >>>>go >>>>down swinging. Thanks. Mike >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 1:17 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi...I'd like to hear the list's opinion about the process developed >>>>>>by Iogen to produce "cellulosic ethanol." Goldman Sachs announced >>>>>>yesterday (May 1) an investment of $30million Canadian in the >>>>>>company. Royal Dutch/Shell, Petro-Canada, and the Canadian Gov't >>>>>>have also all partnered with or are supporting Iogen. >>>>>> The first article below, by Sam Jaffe, an editor with The >>>>>>Scientist magazine, discusses cellulosic ethanol as well as a fuel >>>>>>cell developed by Lanny Scmidt. The second link is to the Iogen >>>>>>website itself. Thanks. Mike >>>>>>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0407.jaffe.html >>>>>>http://www.iogen.ca/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Here's some previous discussion: >>>>> >>>>>http://snipurl.com/pxs2 >>>>>biofuel >>>>>Search results for 'iogen' >>>>>94 matches >>>>> >>>>>Ethanol from cellulose >>>>>http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose >>>>> >>>>>Maybe it'll get off the ground now, it's been around for years and >>>>>nothing happens. Like all the other ethanol-from-cellulose projects. >>>>> >>>>>What bothers me about it, other than how well industrial-scale >>>>>processes fit rational biofuels production anyway, is that cellulose >>>>>is widely regarded as "waste", but the soil that produced it might >>>>>not think so. There's often plenty of cellulose about that isn't >>>>>utilised and could/should be harvested, but if Iogen et al start >>>>>gobbling up crop wastes at the expense of soil fertility maintenance >>>>>then clean, green and sustainable biofuels won't be the result. >>>>> >>>>>Best >>>>> >>>>>Keith >>>>> >>>>> > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
