On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Ondrej Certik <ond...@certik.cz> wrote: > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Aaron S. Meurer <asmeu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Apr 30, 2011, at 4:22 PM, Ondrej Certik wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> thanks Ronan, Vinzent, Aaron, Mateusz and Brian for participating in >>> the discussion. First of all, I would like to assure you that there >>> are no hard feelings on my side, and hopefully we can learn something >>> form it, and resolve things. I would like to write my very clear >>> opinion on some of the issues raised in this thread: >>> >>> 1) This feature is a core feature, that SymPy should have >>> >>> 2) It is ok to give -1 for reviews, as long as you give a plan for the >>> author of the patch, how he can fix it, so that it is acceptable. It >>> is also ok to give -1 without saying anything else (this case), but >>> then this stops progress, because it is not clear what I can do to get >>> this in. As such, when you do such "-1" as a reviewer, you should >>> think twice what this is going to cause, and initiate a discussion >>> about this. >>> >>> 3) Vinzent asked, why I was upset. So the reason being, that something >>> that I personally strongly believe belongs into sympy was given -1 >>> without any constructive technical criticism. As far as I know, we >>> have never pushed in a patch, that was clearly given -1 as this one. >>> So as such, I felt, that this means, this can't go in. And as such I >>> was upset, because suddenly I will not be able to achieve the goal to >>> be able to do things that people do with Mathematica with SymPy, not >>> because the code was not there, but because some of sympy developers >>> gave it -1, because they don't share my vision. And as such, I was >>> upset. I think that's understandable, isn't it? :) In any case, let me >>> reiterate, that I am upset at the situation, not Ronan, or anybody >>> else. >>> >>> 4) So now the question is what to do now. Well, my first idea was to >>> convince Ronan to give it +1. That's of course the best. But if that >>> is not possible, we can of course push it in anyway (given all the +1 >>> that it got from other developers). But that is really something, that >>> I, as a democratic person, really hate to do. Because "-1" is like a >>> veto. That's how it worked so far. Maybe this point needs further >>> discussion among us. At least I always considered "-1" as a veto. And >>> as such, the code can't be pushed in, unless the situation is >>> resolved. >>> >>> Ondřej >> >> Well, to me, the definition of "democratic" means a majority :) >> >> As the community gets larger, I think it will be necessary to not always >> have a unanimous decision on everything. Certainly we should aim for it, >> and we shouldn't just ignore −1's (especially if it is a technical issue). >> But if it comes down to a disagreement that isn't going to change, we will >> have to just look to see if there is a majority opinion, or at least if >> there is a consensus in a looser sense of the word (like 5 +1's vs. 1 −1). >> >> If you really want a unanimous decision every time, you will only end up >> getting the highest quality code being pushed in, and you shouldn't complain >> when anything less doesn't make it. But I think that that is a bad way to >> do things, for the same reason that you should "release early and release >> often" (see >> http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/ar01s04.html). > > > I think that the rule of thumb can be simply said -- do your best to > "keep all sympy devs happy". If one of them gives -1, do the best to > get it resolved (one way or another).
Unless somebody has something else to add, given the controversy of the patch, Aaron, can you go ahead and push this in as it is, or provide directions how I can improve the patch, so that it can go in? Thanks, Ondrej -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sympy" group. To post to this group, send email to sympy@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sympy+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sympy?hl=en.
