2010/1/20 Peter Childs <pchi...@bcs.org> > > In my book its easy. > > Cafe - Place to buy and consume light snacks and NON-Alcoholic Drinks > (Tea, Coffee, Coke etc) on site. Usually Unlicensed. >
in many countries you will find alcohol in cafés as well. In a café I would before all expect a professional coffee-machine and someone able to use it properly. Then I would expect a certain style (chairs and tables), opened usually from morning (or noon) to the evening, sometimes nighttime, almost never till very late. "Snacks" I would usually replace with cake and cookies. > > Pub - Place to buy and consume Alcoholic Drinks on site, (may also > retail Non-Alcoholic Drinks, Snacks and sometimes Food) > might also retail alcoholic drinks (in Germany and Italy, they do all, still a German "Pub" will look different (style) from what the Germans (and not only) call an "Irish Pub", which is precisely corresponding to a "Pub" in the UK/Ireland. Most of the "irish pubs" offer a small selection of food and snacks, "german pubs" often don't offer food (unless they call themselfes "restaurant"). They (mostly, nearly all) do offer draught beer. > > Bar - Place to buy Alcoholic Drinks within a large establishment, > maybe with a hotel, or holiday complex, may share its seating with > other vendors. > Bars, cafés, restaurants and pubs can all be inside hotels and holiday complexes. You might also very often find a bar in pubs and cafés, usually 1. in northern europe there are mainly "night bars" (I leave "milk bars" out of this thread), i.e. mostly frequented at night, they will usually have a professional bartender that mixes all kind of cocktails and longdrinks, probably also have small concerts, sometimes are self service. The seating will be bar stools at the counter and maybe lounge tables and sofas for relaxing. Ususally no food (or just snacks). Sometimes the offer draught beer, sometimes (probably more often) they don't. 2. in southern europe the bar concept is different and goes from breakfast, lunch to "pre-dinner". They serve all kind of drinks (also alcoholic), and often offer a small selection of dishes for lunch. In Italy many of them also sell cigarettes. The main use is still serving coffee. They change their use during the day: from (northern europe) café in the morning, to lunch-time-place at noon (kind of cheap pasta restaurant / fast-food like sandwiches) to a place to get an aperitiv before dinner. This kind of bar is found in Italy, Spain, southern France, Portugal, ...). They will (almost all) have a professional coffee machine. Still these places vary from country/culture to culture. IMHO we should continue the way we are going. E.g. I would recommend to tag an Italian bar with amenity=bar but expect something different if I navigate to a Bar in Rome than I would if I went to a Bar in Berlin. Let the mapuser interpret the available information. All Italian Bars call themselves "bar". For an Italian (casual) mapper it will be confusing to tag a bar with "café" (and still "café" doesn't describe the place well, as an Italian Bar is not a "Viennese Café"). Cheers, Martin
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