Here's another issue I would like mural...@montevideo.com.uy to address: In Venezuela the second largest city is on a body of water called "Lago de Maracaibo":
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11334852 As mentioned in Wikipedia, local Venezolanos often refer to this as a lake (lago), not an estuary or bay: *Lake Maracaibo* (Spanish <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language>: *Lago de Maracaibo*, pronounced [ˈlaɣo ðe maɾaˈkajβo] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Spanish> ([image: About this sound] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ES-pe_-_Lago_de_Maracaibo.ogg>listen <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/ES-pe_-_Lago_de_Maracaibo.ogg> )) is a large brackish <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brackish> tidal bay (or tidal estuary <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary>) in Venezuela <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela> and an "inlet of the Caribbean Sea <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Sea>".[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-1>[2] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-2>[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-3>[4] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-4> It is sometimes considered a lake <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake> rather than a bay <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay> or lagoon <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon>.[5] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-Murphy-5>[6] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-NASA-6>[7] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-Limnol-7>[8] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-Publishing2010-8>[9] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-QuinnWoodward2015-9> [10] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-10>[11] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-11>[12] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-12>[13] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo#cite_note-13> It is connected to the Gulf of Venezuela <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Venezuela> by Tablazo Strait <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablazo_Strait>, which is 5.5 kilometres (3.4 mi) wide at the northern end. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Maracaibo So, does this mean that Lago de Maracaibo could be mapped as natural=water or waterway=riverbank instead, if local mappers feel it is a lake rather than a tidal bay / estuary? (It is currently mapped with natural=coastline and with a relation tagged as natural=bay, like most other similar features in OpenStreetMap, with the exception of the Rio de la Plata) – Joseph Eisenberg On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 2:52 AM Alan Mackie <aamac...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 at 01:34, <mural...@montevideo.com.uy> wrote: >> >> >> >> ----- Mensaje original ----- >> > De: "Joseph Eisenberg" <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> >> > Para: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" < tagging@openstreetmap.org> >> > Enviados: Martes, 4 de Agosto 2020 16:56:31 >> > Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Rio de la Plata edit war >> >> > The graphics in this document are mainly models of current flow, rather than >> > actual measurements, but it is mentioned that the average current flow, >> > neglecting wind, is only 0.1 m/s in the Rio de la Plata. Since winds of 5 m/s >> > are routine according to the paper, the currents vary strongly based on winds >> > and tides. >> > See for example the figura on pages 26 to 37 which show the modeled variation >> > with different wind direction. I don't see a modeling of the affect of tides - >> > this appears to be the average current over the tidal cycle? But I admit I have >> > not visited this area. >> >> Sure its a model, but the model is validated by drifting bouys, as you can check in page 37. >> i just translated here. >> "The drift buoy trajectories launched in the summer of 2003 and reported by Piola et al (2003) showed, in consistency with the modeled solutions, relatively low average speeds (20-30 cm / s) in the middle part of the river and higher speeds in the outer sector, mainly towards the Uruguayan coast, where they exceeded 60 cm / s (Fig. 33)." >> >> > My main objection is the inclusion of Bahia Samborombon in the estuary. The >> > charts and satellite images show very little influence from river water in that >> > area, as well as in the section of coast east of Montevideo. >> >> You are misreading the imagery. What generaly available imagery shows in this area is a change of colour, which is dark brown to the NW, and more clear to the SE. This is caused for the change of turbidity, located near the 5m isobath. >> > The figures in both the document linked by muralito and the one previously linked by Andy seem to show that flow outside of the line from Montevideo to Punta Piedras is largely dominated by wind and ocean conditions and not by the river flow. Visible sediment in the water was discounted earlier for defining outer limits as it often persists far into areas clearly considered ocean (see Christoph's example off the coast of China), but photos showing the sediment also show it starting to disperse after this point. Some wind directions seem to dominate the flow even further upstream. > > As this discussion continues I think this looks more and more like a river that drains into a sheltered bay than one that drains directly into the ocean. > >> > – Joseph Eisenberg >> >> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 12:42 PM < mural...@montevideo.com.uy > wrote: >> >> >> ----- Mensaje original ----- >> >> > De: "Kevin Kenny" < kevin.b.ke...@gmail.com > >> >> > Para: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" < tagging@openstreetmap.org > >> >> > Enviados: Martes, 4 de Agosto 2020 16:28:55 >> >> > Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Rio de la Plata edit war >> >> >> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:18 PM Joseph Eisenberg < joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com > >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> These rules would exclude the lower Rio De La Plata and the lower part of the >> >> >> mouth of the Saint Lawrence river, as well as other wide estuaries where winds >> >> >> and tides have more influence on surface water flow than does the discharge of >> >> >> the river. It would not prevent mapping the Hudson mouth at the southern tip of >> >> >> Manhattan, because the flow is strong all the way to New York Harbor, if I >> >> >> understand correctly. >> >> >> > The Hudson definitely reverses flow. One of its names among the First Peoples >> >> > translates to 'the river flows both ways.' The division in the flow lies less >> >> > in the fraction of the tidal cycle than the speed of the current. It flows >> >> > 'upstream' for half the time, 'downstream' for half, but the downstream current >> >> > is considerably swifter. >> >> >> Rio de la Plata would not be excluded, as you can read in the document [8] i >> >> linked in my first mail, for example, see some graphics of the flow of the >> >> river in page 25. >> >> [8] DINAMA. Salinidad >> >> https://www.dinama.gub.uy/oan/documentos/uploads/2016/12/patrones_circulacion.pdf >> >> >> Regaards, >> >> M. >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Con el nuevo beneficio fiscal, tu facturación electrónica puede ser sin costo. >> >> >> Informate si aplicás aquí. >> >> >> mvdfactura.uy >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Tagging mailing list >> >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Tagging mailing list >> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Con el nuevo beneficio fiscal, tu facturación electrónica puede ser sin costo. >> >> Informate si aplicás aquí. >> >> mvdfactura.uy >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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