Not to mention the additional overhead of conflating two databases to get something essential like a name
On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 7:57 a.m. Alan Mackie, <aamac...@gmail.com> wrote: > This seems like a bad idea. > > Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is not > always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a specific > wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious when it > comes to trademarks. > > We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have verified that > the signage on the individual locations has actually changed. Depending on > the brand these could take years to ripple through to the individual > stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain old branding as part > of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding changes in the Wikidata > would likely be over-applied. > > Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be carte-blanche > permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement between > OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey is > needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the introduction of > dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it doesn't even > have a changeset. > > If "duplication" is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all > Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing > contributors to check an independant database before uploading survey > results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven project. > > On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE <pang...@riseup.net> wrote: > >> These are valid concerns. See my response to James. >> If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up our own >> wikibase installation. See https://www.wbstack.com/ >> >> It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time. >> >> It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's > resources. > > In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into wikidata >> which is very tied to education and does not accept all our objects that >> have names currently. >> >> In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix than Q >> for our unique ids. >> >> Cheers >> >> Mateusz Konieczny via talk <talk@openstreetmap.org> skrev: (9 augusti >> 2020 12:16:33 CEST) >>> >>> or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM mappers? >>> or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them quickly? >>> >>> Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by james2...@gmail.com: >>> >>> is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist? >>> >>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE, <pang...@riseup.net> wrote: >>> >>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating >>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag. >>> >>> The rationale is explained here: >>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655 >>> >>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well. >>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit the >>> names or add name references (through the editors) >>> >>> Substantial changes will have to be made: >>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow. >>> It could probably be done on the fly. >>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying >>> any object. >>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from wikidata. >>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata >>> objects. >>> >>> These seems like large burdens to dump on open source developers. > >> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We should >>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how to do >>> that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask users to >>> create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that? >>> >>> I'm not sure if I have a Wikidata account so this is a non-issue for > me. > >> >>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM closer >>> than the islands they are today. >>> >>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already >>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply better >>> quality, better modeled, better referenced and better protected against >>> vandalism. >>> >>> WDYT? >>> >>> Cheers >>> pangoSE >>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but to >>> the wider ecosystem._______________________________________________ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >
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