Ok. I agree with that, there is nothing hindering OSM from hosting the wikibase instance on the same machine/cluster/whatever as the main osm database which btw. seems to lack a name.
James <james2...@gmail.com> skrev: (9 augusti 2020 14:49:36 CEST) >Network calls incur a performance hit. I didn't say it was complicated. > >On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 8:46 a.m. pangoSE, <pang...@riseup.net> wrote: > >> >> I disagree. With (permanent) unique ids is trivial and the overhead >is IMO >> neglible. >> >> Its not rocket science to query an API endpoint from any programming >> language. All our data consumers are already doing this. >> >> I made a simple map in a few hours that query both overpass and >wikidata >> based on the osmid to find links to images of shelters. See >> https://github.com/pangoSE/sheltermap >> >> James <james2...@gmail.com> skrev: (9 augusti 2020 13:59:40 CEST) >>> >>> Not to mention the additional overhead of conflating two databases >to get >>> something essential like a name >>> >>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 7:57 a.m. Alan Mackie, <aamac...@gmail.com> >wrote: >>> >>>> This seems like a bad idea. >>>> >>>> Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is >not >>>> always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a >specific >>>> wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious >when it >>>> comes to trademarks. >>>> >>>> We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have >verified >>>> that the signage on the individual locations has actually changed. >>>> Depending on the brand these could take years to ripple through to >the >>>> individual stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain >old >>>> branding as part of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding >changes >>>> in the Wikidata would likely be over-applied. >>>> >>>> Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be >carte-blanche >>>> permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement >between >>>> OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey >is >>>> needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the >introduction of >>>> dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it >doesn't even >>>> have a changeset. >>>> >>>> If "duplication" is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all >>>> Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing >>>> contributors to check an independant database before uploading >survey >>>> results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven >project. >>>> >>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE <pang...@riseup.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> These are valid concerns. See my response to James. >>>>> If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up >our own >>>>> wikibase installation. See https://www.wbstack.com/ >>>>> >>>>> It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time. >>>>> >>>>> It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's >>>> resources. >>>> >>>> In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into >wikidata >>>>> which is very tied to education and does not accept all our >objects that >>>>> have names currently. >>>>> >>>>> In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix >than >>>>> Q for our unique ids. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Mateusz Konieczny via talk <talk@openstreetmap.org> skrev: (9 >augusti >>>>> 2020 12:16:33 CEST) >>>>>> >>>>>> or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM >>>>>> mappers? >>>>>> or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them >quickly? >>>>>> >>>>>> Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by james2...@gmail.com: >>>>>> >>>>>> is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to >exist? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE, <pang...@riseup.net> >wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and >updating >>>>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag. >>>>>> >>>>>> The rationale is explained here: >>>>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655 >>>>>> >>>>>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as >well. >>>>>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to >edit the >>>>>> names or add name references (through the editors) >>>>>> >>>>>> Substantial changes will have to be made: >>>>>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata >somehow. >>>>>> It could probably be done on the fly. >>>>>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when >displaying >>>>>> any object. >>>>>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from >>>>>> wikidata. >>>>>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata >>>>>> objects. >>>>>> >>>>>> These seems like large burdens to dump on open source developers. >>>> >>>>> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We >should >>>>>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on >how to do >>>>>> that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask >users >>>>>> to create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure if I have a Wikidata account so this is a non-issue >for >>>> me. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM >>>>>> closer than the islands they are today. >>>>>> >>>>>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox >already >>>>>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply >better >>>>>> quality, better modeled, better referenced and better protected >against >>>>>> vandalism. >>>>>> >>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> pangoSE >>>>>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, >but to >>>>>> the wider >ecosystem._______________________________________________ >>>>>> talk mailing list >>>>>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> talk mailing list >>>>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> talk mailing list >>>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>>> >>>
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