Network calls incur a performance hit. I didn't say it was complicated. On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 8:46 a.m. pangoSE, <pang...@riseup.net> wrote:
> > I disagree. With (permanent) unique ids is trivial and the overhead is IMO > neglible. > > Its not rocket science to query an API endpoint from any programming > language. All our data consumers are already doing this. > > I made a simple map in a few hours that query both overpass and wikidata > based on the osmid to find links to images of shelters. See > https://github.com/pangoSE/sheltermap > > James <james2...@gmail.com> skrev: (9 augusti 2020 13:59:40 CEST) >> >> Not to mention the additional overhead of conflating two databases to get >> something essential like a name >> >> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 7:57 a.m. Alan Mackie, <aamac...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> This seems like a bad idea. >>> >>> Name tags are generally very easy to verify on the ground. It is not >>> always as easy to tell if a shop with a certain name belongs to a specific >>> wikidata entry, especially in jurisdictions that are less litigious when it >>> comes to trademarks. >>> >>> We also should not be doing bulk name changes until we have verified >>> that the signage on the individual locations has actually changed. >>> Depending on the brand these could take years to ripple through to the >>> individual stores, and particularly 'historic' stores may retain old >>> branding as part of a conscious effort not to irk locals. Branding changes >>> in the Wikidata would likely be over-applied. >>> >>> Abandoning the name tags for chains would essentially be carte-blanche >>> permission for automated edits. As it stands now, a disagreement between >>> OSM name and Wikidata name may be a useful indicator that resurvey is >>> needed. If we abandon name tags we open the door to the introduction of >>> dodgy data that isn't caught by any of our QA tools because it doesn't even >>> have a changeset. >>> >>> If "duplication" is really an issue, I would prefer to remove all >>> Wikidata tags than to depreciate names where they exist. Forcing >>> contributors to check an independant database before uploading survey >>> results seems like a lot of extra effort for a volunteer driven project. >>> >>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 12:11, pangoSE <pang...@riseup.net> wrote: >>> >>>> These are valid concerns. See my response to James. >>>> If Wikimedia should become uncooperative we could easily set up our own >>>> wikibase installation. See https://www.wbstack.com/ >>>> >>>> It takes a few minutes plus some configuration time. >>>> >>>> It would also be a new and currently unnecessary drain on OSMF's >>> resources. >>> >>> In fact this might be much better than forcing our data into wikidata >>>> which is very tied to education and does not accept all our objects that >>>> have names currently. >>>> >>>> In case we take this route I would recommend having another prefix than >>>> Q for our unique ids. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Mateusz Konieczny via talk <talk@openstreetmap.org> skrev: (9 augusti >>>> 2020 12:16:33 CEST) >>>>> >>>>> or has downtime? or deletes data/items used by OSM? or bans OSM >>>>> mappers? >>>>> or refuses to ban vandal/troll/harasser? or fails to ban them quickly? >>>>> >>>>> Aug 9, 2020, 11:45 by james2...@gmail.com: >>>>> >>>>> is there a contingency plan if wikipedia/wikimedia ceases to exist? >>>>> >>>>> On Sun., Aug. 9, 2020, 4:29 a.m. pangoSE, <pang...@riseup.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating >>>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag. >>>>> >>>>> The rationale is explained here: >>>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655 >>>>> >>>>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well. >>>>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit the >>>>> names or add name references (through the editors) >>>>> >>>>> Substantial changes will have to be made: >>>>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata somehow. >>>>> It could probably be done on the fly. >>>>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying >>>>> any object. >>>>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from >>>>> wikidata. >>>>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata >>>>> objects. >>>>> >>>>> These seems like large burdens to dump on open source developers. >>> >>>> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We should >>>>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how to do >>>>> that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask users >>>>> to create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that? >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure if I have a Wikidata account so this is a non-issue for >>> me. >>> >>>> >>>>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM >>>>> closer than the islands they are today. >>>>> >>>>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already >>>>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply better >>>>> quality, better modeled, better referenced and better protected against >>>>> vandalism. >>>>> >>>>> WDYT? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> pangoSE >>>>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but to >>>>> the wider ecosystem._______________________________________________ >>>>> talk mailing list >>>>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> talk mailing list >>>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >>
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