Hello,
Rick Adams wrote:
> I'm a libertarian with respect to rights. If it doesn't _directly_ harm
> the person or property of another, non-consenting, individual it simply
> isn't the government's business.
There is an assumption behind your statement that words do not harm. I would
disagree. They can certainly cause harm in the immediate and in the future. I
have felt hurt in response to some of Michael's posts. When I subscribed to TIPS,
I didn't expect to be denigrated as a Jew. I didn't expect that this would be
acceptable behavior on the list either - it is not acceptable behavior on any other
list to which I subscribe. I find it ironic that psychologists are the most
supportive of stereotyping and prejudice. And arguing for it under the guise of
free speech.
Personally, I don't think anyone should experience denigration for who they are on
this list.
Additionally, when someone makes racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic comments.
these comments can have a future impact on behavior which is harmful. Otherwise,
propaganda would have no impact what-so-ever. After all, they are simply words.
History would argue otherwise.
I'm not sure what your point is regarding the government - as far as I know they
are not monitoring or controlling the posts on this list. I do think in a
professional environment, we should be able to behave professionally.
I also wonder if you are putting civil liberties/rights ahead of human rights.
While these generally overlap, I don't think that is always the case. But perhaps
this is a discussion better undertaken off list.
> > However, even if the intend wasn't to offend, the words were
> > offensive. And in this case, they have been repeatedly offensive.
> > Usually, when people misspeak and harm others unintentionally,
> > they apologize. When it is intentional, they usually don't.
>
> Here, of course, is the crux of the matter. Some of us (yourself
> included) believe the words of Michael--and in some member's views even
> Louis--are meant to offend, or at the least are of a nature that the
> poster owes an apology for their use.
Perhaps, you should read my words more carefully. I stated that even if the words
were not intended to offend, the statements were offensive. Usually, even if we
have harmed someone accidentally, most of us apologize.
At no point have I heard Louis make an anti-Semitic, homophobic, etc. comments. I
think some folks just disagree with Louis. That's a whole different ballgame.
> Others of us, reading the same words
> from a different perspective, feel that they were _not_ meant to offend
> and that the poster wrote them in good faith and thus owes no apology at
> all.
When someone makes derogatory comments towards a single group based on their race,
ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. and the person does it
repeatedly, it is difficult to comprehend that they are unaware that they are
offending. This is particularly true for someone who states that they teach in the
areas of social psychology and courses dealing with diversity. I assume that they
have read the textbooks they use in their class such as Allport.
> With this, I'll withdraw from the debate before it becomes more heated.
> It's my sincere belief that the posts in questions--particularly
> Louis'--have no negative intent whatever and it is my absolute belief that
> there is just as much validity in the assumption that they are intended to
> be read in a positive manner as there is for the reverse.
I just wonder if we are discussing apples and oranges. I have no problem with
Louis. I have a problem with racism. I have a problem with anti-Semitism. I have
a problem with homophobia. And on this, I hope we do not disagree. I for one will
not keep quiet in the face of injustice even if it is "just words". I believe
words have power as evidenced in history.
To quote a recent editorial by Elie Wiesel: "Surely, when human lives are involved,
indifference is not an answer . . . .Neutrality helps the aggressor."
I don't believe we should be indifferent to hateful words as these can lead to
hateful action.
linda
>
>
> Peace,
>
> Rick
> --
>
> Rick Adams
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Department of Social Sciences
> Jackson Community College, Jackson, MI
>
> "... and the only measure of your worth and your deeds
> will be the love you leave behind when you're gone."
>
> Fred Small, J.D., "Everything Possible"
>
> >
> > linda
> >
> >
> > --
> > linda m. woolf, ph.d.
> > associate professor - psychology
> > webster university
> >
> > main webpage: http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/
> > Holocaust and genocide studies pages:
> > http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/holocaust.html
> > womens' pages: http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/women.html
> > gerontology pages: http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/gero.html
> >
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
--
linda m. woolf, ph.d.
associate professor - psychology
webster university
main webpage: http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/
Holocaust and genocide studies pages:
http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/holocaust.html
womens' pages: http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/women.html
gerontology pages: http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/gero.html
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
