Chris--do you have a source for that quote--love it as so on target.  Hope
I'm not repeating myself . . . but whatever, attended a lecture by Skinner
in the early 1980's at Loyola University in Chicago and left rather
depressed.  The reason was, as per that quote, I had always understood
Skinner's position that our notion of free-will was an illusion in a
general sense and was one of the few that found his book, "Beyond Freedom
and Dignity," interesting and thoughtful.  But I clearly never received
his message on a personal level until attending this lecture.  Only then
did I feel distressed by the reality of MY lack of free-will as he was so
clear, engaging and brilliant but also distressing as I finally had to
accept "determinism for me also?!"  But I also knew that soon my illusion
of free-will would return and, of course, it did.  After that experience,
I finally understood why Skinner's work has been so viciously attacked and
eagerly dismissed as it's simply too punishing to our our important
perception of having personal autonomy.

Joan
jwarm...@oakton.edu

> Free will for me. Determinism (genetic or environmental) for thee.
>
> Chris Green
> currently in Montreal...  reading and enjoying _The Spirit Level: Why
> Equlaity is Better for Everyone_, in which Oliver James is occasionally
> cited, which I am sure will rankle Allen's apparently reflexive Toryism.
> :-)
>
> =================
>
> Rick Froman wrote:
>> I don't see any evidence that either right or left wingers really are
>> motivated to find the ultimate causes of behavior in either genetics or
>> environment. The majority still feel that such explanations de-humanize
>> and violate human freedom and responsibility. I think that is true for
>> the majority of both left and right and, despite what they might think
>> about the causes of other's behavior, very few act as if they believe
>> their own behaviors are not largely freely chosen.
>>
>> To find evidence of both left and right support for genetic
>> explanations, one need look no further than
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics. As Wikipedia is reflective of the
>> wisdom of the crowds
>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds), no critical
>> thinking required).
>>
>> Fear the Beard!
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> Dr. Rick Froman, Chair
>> Division of Humanities and Social Sciences
>> John Brown University
>> Siloam Springs, AR  72761
>> rfro...@jbu.edu
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Mike Palij [m...@nyu.edu]
>> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 11:29 AM
>> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
>> Cc: Mike Palij
>> Subject: RE: Re:[tips] Are Genes Left-Wing?
>>
>> .
>>
>> Re: (2) Except that genetic explanations have a long history in
>> right-wing
>> politics and environmental explanation have a long history in left-wing
>> politics.  As we learn more about gene-environment interactions, the
>> overly simplistic conceptions of nature vs nurture ideologies will have
>> to
>> be reworked.  But, just as creationsists will not find any scientific
>> evidence
>> that undermines creation science to be credible, eugenics-oriented
>> right wingers will not be deterred by evidence that their conceptions
>> of "bad genes" are invalid.  Left-wingers, I think, should be cautious
>> in embracing genetic explanations unless the research is really, really
>> good.
>> ---
>>
>
>
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