David Miller wrote:
> DAVEH wrote: > > I explained that we have always considered ourselves > > (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day > > Saints) to be Christian. Our Church is even named after > > him. Is yours??? The term "Mormon" was given to us by > > our detractors, and it kinda stuck. We don't feel ashamed > > of it as the anti-Mormon folks from the early days had hoped. > > We still are Christians, as Jesus Christ is the focal point > > of our religion. We believe in his miraculous birth, death > > and resurrection. ... Mormons are Christians despite what > > you may believe or think. > > Excellent debate point, Dave. The church of the Mormons is named after > Christ, while the Wesleyans are named after a man. Nevertheless, surely > you must consider that while you claim to be after Christ, your > organization is inexplicably DAVEH: "Inexplicably".......I don't think so! > tied to Joseph Smith, much more so than > Wesleyans are tied to John Wesley. DAVEH: We believe JS was a prophet of God despite his warts, much in the same way Moses was a prophet. I've never heard anybody claim that Wesley was a prophet, but rather merely a reformer. > Consider that a modern Wesleyan may readily repudiate much of what John > Wesley taught. For example, a modern Wesleyan may readily reject infant > baptism, yet infant baptism was ardently taught and commanded by John > Wesley. On the other hand, a Mormon may not reject Joseph Smith. DAVEH: Correct. It wouldn't make any more sense if they did, than if a Christian or Jew were to believe Moses was a false prophet. > If I > considered Joseph Smith to have misrepresented the Book of Abraham and > that he falsely claimed to be able to translate it, could I still become > a member of your church? If I reject the Book of Mormon as not being > Scripture, can I become a member of your church? If I consider several > prophecies of Joseph Smith as recorded in the Doctrine & Covenants to be > false, can I be a good Mormon? Surely you must recognize that the > answer to all these questions is no. DAVEH: Similarly, if one thought Moses misrepresented what he wrote in the Bible, it would be difficult to be a Christian, would it not? > This is the dissimulation that strikes many of us as repulsive. You > claim to follow Jesus Christ, but in practice your religion is based in > Joseph Smith. DAVEH: No, it is based on Jesus Christ. JS was merely a prophet who was an instrument in the Lord's hands in the restoration of the Church. The Bible is full of prophets who some accepted as doing the Lord's work, and others didn't. > Lutherans, Wesleyans, and Calvinists might emphasize > various teachings of the men who gave them foundation, but ultimately > they will lay aside the teachings of these men to emphasize that which > Jesus taught. DAVEH: Whether one accepts JS or not, I don't think he claimed to be saying anything other than what he claimed the Lord wanted him to reveal. For instance, baptism for the dead.......some TTers (you, if I remember correctly) have assumed he came up with that from reading the Bible. I believe the Bible was not the reason we practice it today, but rather because JS received revelation from God commanding it. > Please do not misunderstand. I consider it carnality to > use these labels of men, and something clearly condemned in 1 Cor. 3. > Nevertheless, I recognize that in actual practice, they do not follow a > man as closely as the Mormons follow Joseph Smith. Do you disagree? DAVEH: Yes. However, you are comparing JS who claimed (and is believed) to be a prophet to guys who had no inclination to make that claim. I think it would be better if you were to compare him to Biblical prophets, such as Moses. Then your comparison might be more significant. > Stated another way, it seems clear to many of us that despite the name > of your church, Joseph Smith is the cornerstone of your faith. Would > you agree? DAVEH: No, I would not agree. Jesus is the cornerstone of our religion. JS was merely a tool in his hands. > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
