Re: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it

[Blaine R Borrowman]

 

 

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:53:47 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

There is NO CONSTITUTIONAL Right to Peace & Quiet

 

** Jus' keep believing that, Kevin, and one of these days you will get arrested for disturbing the peace--or for violating some town's  noise ordinances--hope your argument works when you get before the judge   (:>) 

Blaine

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The imposition in a public area happens when someone complains and claims that they have a right to quietness when they go out in public areas.  These are the ones who are imposing their unconstitutional views upon others.  These are the lawless ones.

 

**How do you figure that David?  There are ordinances against noise in public places.  When we moved to VaBch I used to like taking the kids to the Beach in the summer so I could relax and listen to the waves I hated it when ppl would come with these loud boom boxes playing heavy metal music.  Was I the lawless one because I wanted peace? What about Hebrews 12:14?

 

You have to separate in your mind public areas and private areas to understand this concept.  Once you recognize that public areas are places where the public may gather and have assemblies and initiate dialogue, etc., then you will be on the road to believing in free speech.  If you don't recognize this, then you do not believe in free speech, but only in highly regulated and pre-approved speech.

 

**I understand free speech to pertain to what is said as well as where it is said. Thought police are not an issue - presently but if these disturbances continue they may bring some unwanted attn. I sure wouldn't want Mormons with truth horns, whistles, etc. in my face right outside my chosen place of worship - would you?

 

Blaine wrote:
This has been especially a problem with regards to the street preachers who descend on the Plaza  in SLCity.  Many people, Mormons and non-Mormons,  complain, but so far the street preachers have  vowed to continue. 

 

David: In this case, the ones who complain are acting lawlessly.  The preachers are engaged in free speech protected by the

U.S. Constitution. 

 

**Whose law are the complainers breaking?  God's law or our civil law? The US Constitution is supposed to protect

ALL people.  What about the laws of common decency?

 

Blaine wrote:
BY THE WAY, Mormon missionaries are REQUIRED to get permission/cooperation with any person they teach. 

 

David: That is a shame.  They should be taught about free speech and acting under the free authority that comes from  

God Almighty. 

 

**How is it a shame not to run over the top of people? I think it is a good thing that they teach their missionaries to

respect others - it's what I've tried to teach my children.

 

David: They should be taught how to voice their dissent of Mormon authority in a respectful and proper way.  Instead

they are programmed into being zombies of the Mormon church.

 

**I don't think Blaine is talking about Mormon leadership He is talking about Mormon missionaries and the people they

have home studies with.

 

Blaine wrote:
The key difference, however, is if you say "NO" loud and clear, they will back off. 

 

David: In my opinion, I think most Mormon missionaries are spineless.  They won't stand up to a good discussion.  They

back away.  They are wimps. You applaud them for backing off if I say "NO" but I consider that a weakness not a strength.

 

**How can it be a weakness to use common sense. If ppl are not interested then why not respect their wishes? We hate

telemarketers who call at dinner time and will not take No for an answer. 

 

Blaine wrote:
Street preachers do not back off.  They just get more stubborn and insistent.  Even a used car salesman has nothing on them. 

 

** What an indictment...  

 

David: I think that is a good and admirable trait.  They are men of character and integrity.  They are soldiers who do not

run from the enemy and who are not intimidated by the enemy.  Good for them. 

 

**How would this be indicative of character and integrity? A used car salesman is at the bottom of the heap in our society.

Mormon's are not the enemy - our warfare is not against flesh and blood, it is possible to do battle with the enemy in your own living room at home no need to go to SLC and make a public display.

 

David: I can't speak for every preacher, but I always am re-evaluating my tactics. I always go before the Lord and seek

for better ways of representing him.  I always am concerned of being too hard on someone or too easy on someone.  I think what you don't realize is that we obey the Lord in these things and seek to please God and not man.  We ignore what men think of us. 

 

**Maybe we could add here 'to our own detriment' at times... 

 

David: We are not trying to get people to join our club or our religion. 

 

**Is the above completely honest?  I've seen lots of notch counting here and have been accused of not doing anything because I'm not out there on the street like the rest of you racking up converts.

 

David: We are testifying to Jesus Christ and his standard of righteousness. We are not trying to attract, we are trying to bear witness of God and the message that God has for these particular individuals who cross our path.

 

Blaine wrote:
Just one thing--you can command attention and respect, but you can't demand it--and I feel thats what the street preachers in SLCity do.

 

David: I doubt that any of them are trying to demand respect.  If they were trying to do that, they would dress in a suit, they would not raise their voice in any undignified way, they would not build and carry these big banners, etc.  These men are willing to appear foolish and to be a spectacle to the Mormons in order to get their message out. 

 

**It's not their outward appearance David, it's an attitude or tone that comes from them and it's also on this list.  It's like they are untouchable and can do no wrong because they represent GOD so the rest of us should meet their standard or else we are deceived on purpose or in gross error.  I've been accused of everything BUT being a Christian by ppl on this list.

 

David: If the Mormons invited them into the Temple to address the convention with their message, they probably would not be outside.  The Mormons don't realize it, but this is really the peaceful solution to what they consider to be a problem.  They should allow Christians to teach alongside their teachers at these conventions.  Then there would be no need for anybody to be outside protesting or preaching.

 

**Wishful thinking David, can you see an Evangelical being invited into the Vatican to address the Pope and Cardinals?

I sure can't.

 

BTW, if you don't have time to respond to this I understand...

 

Grace and Peace,

Judy

 

 

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