This is no different than what DeHaan did with his shady use of Greek words. It is dishonest.
KD SAYS The editors of the DIFFERENT Greek Editions are Masters of the word game like masters of 2 card Monty. Watch carefully.
Romans 3 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
"... ‘blood’ is used in this passage [Romans 3:25] in the same way that it is used in a number of other places in the New Testament, that is, to indicate a violent death. ... Although this noun [propitiation] (and its related forms) is sometimes used by pagan writers in the sense of propitiation (that is, an act to appease or placate a god), it is never used this way in the Old Testament." EUGENE NIDA A Translator’s Handbook on Paul’s Letter to the Romans (UBS translations department Secretary and father of Dynamic Equivalency)
Where is God's SURE WORD?
I still am not settled with which GREEK? Especially troublesome is that they contradict one another! Aleph 1, Aleph 2, Aleph 3, B1, B2, B3, C, L, W, Textus Receptus, W/H, Scrivener’s, Alfred, Griesbach, Elzevir, Erasmus, Tischendorf, Lachman, Souter, von, Soden, Hodge-Farstad, If it is Nestle’s-Aland which edition 1-27?
Which Printing? UBS-Aland, Black, Metzger, Wiggren?
Why have so many Scholars departed from the faith while sorting thru the pile?
By what Authority do "scholars" change the very words of God?
Silence is golden, No Answers from the cult of the Greek!
http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/coats-twolies.html
“The Two Lies,” by Daryl R. Coats The "doctrine" that an idea which can be expressed in Hebrew or Greek somehow can't be expressed in English (even though a large portion of Greek vocabulary has been absorbed into the English vocabulary, the largest of any language in history) is nothing but "scholarly" ethnocentricity. The fact that the Bible in English is still the word of God has not stopped a vast number of preachers, teachers, and scholars from saying otherwise: "What this means in the original Greek"; "a better translation would be"; "the Hebrew actually says . . . " I have yet to see an example of "going back to the Greek" that was not a waste of time for one or both of these reasons: (1) the passage in question was clear to begin with; or (2) the word(s) in question could be explained by a dictionary instead of a lexicon.
"Going back to the Greek" is usually a good, "scholarly, acceptable" way of getting rid of distasteful doctrines and/or setting up scholarship as a final authority. For example, here is how most scholars and expositors explain what "inspired" means: "The phrase 'given by inspiration of God' is all one word in the Greek, theopneustos - literally, God breathed." Yet when I look up "theopneustos" in my lexicon, I find only this: "given by inspiration of God."
The Greek game is like chasing your tail.
Bill Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Judy,You started out criticizing what I had said about those who have tendencies, but are not acting upon them. You did that with these words: "People who have been made free in Christ no longer have "those tendencies" Jesus not only paid the price for our sin, he also gives us freedom from the power of it in our lives when we come to Him with our whole heart."I then responded to you and asked that you reconsider what you had said. Instead of doing that, you pulled a switch on us: "I'm not saying that I am never tempted Bill or that I am not dealing with my own family stuff - that's just a fact of life and God allows us to be tested. He also allows Satan to come periodically to check our foundation so we are forewarned. But I don't believe that after a genuine conversion God leaves anyone with uncontrollable tendencies (unless they want them)." Do you see how you change the dynamics of our conversation when you add a new word to mine? You added "uncontrollable" to what I had said about tendencies, in effect producing the antithesis of my assertion that these people were no longer acting upon their tendencies. This is called a straw-man, Judy. It is proof positive that you cannot deal with what I said based upon the merits of my argument. Instead you have to change the argument to fit with your defense. This is no different than what DeHaan did with his shady use of Greek words. It is dishonest. It is also why I grow so weary of dialoguing with you. The rest of your statement rests upon this fallacy and is therefore of no concern to me. Please do not respond to any more of my posts for a while.Bill----- Original Message -----From: Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:15 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] PerversionOn Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:15:17 -0700 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:jt: People who have been made free in Christ no longer have "those tendencies" Jesus not only paid the price for our sin, he also gives us freedom from the power of it in our lives when we come to Him with our whole heart.Judy, do you live your life completely free of temptation? If not, then do you deny that it is the things that you are most inclined towards that are now your greatest source of temptation? Can one be tempted by something she has no inclination to do? Of course not!jt: I'm not saying that I am never tempted Bill or that I am not dealing with my own family stuff - that's just a fact of life and God allows us to be tested. He also allows Satan to come periodically to check our foundation so we are forewarned. But I don't believe that after a genuine conversion God leaves anyone with uncontrollable tendencies (unless they want them).Jesus says temptation begins within us. If you didn't have the internal desire, the "temptation" could not attract you. Jesus said, "For from within, out of a person's heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, eagerness for lustful pleasure, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these vile things come form within" (Mar 7.21-23. Emphasis mine).jt: Basically correct. However, when we are walking in the New Covenant promise we should have a new heart of flesh with God's Law written in it. (Jer 31:33) along with the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome. This is what Paul is talking about in Romans 7 and the answer in Romans 8:1b....And James says there is an army of evil desires within you: "What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?" (Jam 4.1).jt: In the 4th Chapter James is speaking to ppl who are walking after the flesh rather than after the Spirit and in Vs.4. he addresses them as spiritual adulterers and adultresses - friends with the world and enemies of God. These are not ppl who have held on to their freedom in Christ - they need to repent.To say that people who have been made free in Christ no longer have "those tendencies," is to say that they no longer suffer temptation. Are you willing to go this far? Do you have a tendency to be prideful? Do you tend toward foolishness? Are you quarrelsome? Do you tend toward any of these things?jt: I don't believe that people who are free in Christ no longer suffer temptation. Scripture teaches that there is no temptation that is not common to man - but we are never tempted beyond what we are able to bear and with the temptation God makes a way of escape.The tendency of "gay types" towards sexual immorality comes from the same source as your tendencies; they come from within them. And like you, if they are believers in Christ, they no longer have to give in to those desires, but to say that because they have been made free in Christ, they must no longer be tempted, is wrong. I hope you will reconsider your statement. Billjt: I don't see a problem with my statement Bill - rather I see a contradiction with what you teach because if this problem was assumed or whatever the word you use is - through the incarnation then why isn't it healed? In fact why isn't anything healed? Why is the divorce rate and sickness in the Church as bad as it is out there in the world?My belief is that Salvation is a walk or grace in which God does not free us from everything instantly because without a little maturity we would not be strong enough to hold the ground and resist the enemy - However, we are freed from enough so that for the most part we have have victory in our daily lives (when keeping our eyes on Jesus) and I have seen Him deliver ppl from some heavy duty addictions (like homosexuality) immediately to encourage and give them a good start. But we have to want God more than we want our sin to stay delivered. I have a friend who was instantly set free from years and years of addiction to tobacco and she was a very heavy smoker. judytFrom: Judy TaylorBill Taylor wrote:Bill, there is no question that we can apply the word perverts to homos. They practice sexual perversion. It takes a humble man to agree with God, even when that doesn't sound politically correct or "nice". Iz
Where is this "humble man" who agrees with God? In John's address he said that he was also speaking of people who have those tendencies but are not acting on them. That is not perversion, Izzy -- it may even be righteousness: "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God" (1Cor 6.11).jt: People who have been made free in Christ no longer have "those tendencies" Jesus not only paid the price for our sin, he also gives us freedom from the power of it in our lives when we come to Him with our whole heart.To lump people like this in with the "perverts," and call them all a "filty (sic) disgusting bunch," speaks far more truth into the perversion of your own nature than it does theirs. Humility hardly covers it. Billjt: Nothing wrong with calling something what it is and hating the sin but being willing to love the sinner and help them to separate themselves from it. I appreciate Terry's blunt way of putting things because it shakes one out of lethargy and makes us take a hard look. There is so much perversion all around us these days that we are in danger of becoming comfortable with it. It comes right into our living rooms on the TV and doesn't always look like what Terry described in the prisons although it's all the same under the surface. Satan comes as an angel of light and he can make bitter look sweet and darkness appear to be light. Has anyone seen that transexual golfer? Many believe the antichrist will be homosexual also because of the passage in Daniel that says "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god for he shall magnify himself above all" - This type of arrogance is evident in the homosexual community. judyt
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