-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:50:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:11:52 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JD: Judy - if I didn't know better, I'd say that you believe in words and I believe in THE Spirit !!!
I certainly do not equate the words of Christ with God The Spirit, that is for sure.
JD: Judy - if I didn't know better, I'd say that you believe in words and I believe in THE Spirit !!!
I certainly do not equate the words of Christ with God The Spirit, that is for sure.
They work in sync John. Where there is no Word the Spirit has nothing to work
with; too many words of men and no Spirit is a "dead letter" - Jesus called His
Words Spirit and Life, why don't you believe Him?
with; too many words of men and no Spirit is a "dead letter" - Jesus called His
Words Spirit and Life, why don't you believe Him?
JD: Roman 2 makes it clear that we are no long judged by the Law, but by the Spirit.
The law is "the letter." written on tablet of stone and (of course) parchment/papyri.
The law is "the letter." written on tablet of stone and (of course) parchment/papyri.
In Romans 2:16 Paul writes "In the day when God shall judged the secrets of
men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Jesus is the Word of God - There
is no place that I know of in the NT where the Spirit is said to be our Judge.
men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Jesus is the Word of God - There
is no place that I know of in the NT where the Spirit is said to be our Judge.
JD: I should have said it this way: the law is no longer the standard by which we
are judged. The Spirit is that standard in Christ. We are judged in Christ. JD
The standard remains the same since love is the fulfillment of the Law and love is
the royal law or the law of Christ, so how have things changed
JD: The Law is a set of words. The Spirit is a living "breathing" reality (so we believe)
that is no less than Goed Himself !! In Romans 2:29 -- these two concepts, the
non-living Law of God and the Spirit are contrasted.
that is no less than Goed Himself !! In Romans 2:29 -- these two concepts, the
non-living Law of God and the Spirit are contrasted.
Romans 2:29 speaks of circumcision of the heart rather than of the flesh
because this is the New Covenant. Yes the Spirit is a member of the Godhead
and He is the Spirit of Christ but He is not a lone ranger.
because this is the New Covenant. Yes the Spirit is a member of the Godhead
and He is the Spirit of Christ but He is not a lone ranger.
JD: I take the word "law" and impose this definition: that standard by which we
are judged. Before the incarnation, the written law of God was that by which we were
judged. Now after the incarnation the law of the Spirit (the rule of the Spirit is that by
which we are judged. There is much that is used by the Spirit in ADDITION to the
written message.
which we are judged. There is much that is used by the Spirit in ADDITION to the
written message.
We are still judged by the Words Jesus spoke even after the incarnation JD
according to John 12:48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath
one that judgeth him; the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in
the last day"
according to John 12:48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath
one that judgeth him; the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in
the last day"
Those who are judged "by the word I have spoken" are those who have rejected Christ -- that
does not apply to either of us. This rejection of Christ is not a legal positioning but a matter of relationships. Some will reject He who is the author and finisher of his faith. Outside Christ is the law, measured failure and a life without grace -- death.
JD: This passage cannot be used to mean the re establishment of the rule of law.Why?
there is just so much in scripture that opposes such a conclusion. If we are to be
there is just so much in scripture that opposes such a conclusion. If we are to be
judged by law, there would be no point in the coming of Christ.
Why? God needed a permanent sacrifice for sin; the blood of bulls and goats was
just temporary. Jesus was born of Mary, died, and was raised by the eternal Spirit
Meats and the reproof of the world? Judy, In I Cor 8:1-3 you have a problematic
circumstance AND a principle that solves the problem. The principle????
circumstance AND a principle that solves the problem. The principle????
What do you read as the "problematic circumstance" here JD?
In 1Cor 8:1-3, it is the insistence by some of the brotherhood that their knowing
(these were those who did not have meat issues) was the final word and was to
be considered as more important than the relationship we have in Christ via
"love" and -- implied -- their relationship with the brother who believe there
to be more than one God. That MUST BE and is the issue here in I Co 8. that
is why Paul invokes the principle of limited knowing verse relational love.
(these were those who did not have meat issues) was the final word and was to
be considered as more important than the relationship we have in Christ via
"love" and -- implied -- their relationship with the brother who believe there
to be more than one God. That MUST BE and is the issue here in I Co 8. that
is why Paul invokes the principle of limited knowing verse relational love.
I'm not sure what you mean by "limited knowing" vs "relational love"
Where is this "relational love" clearly articulated in God's Word rather than
the extra Biblical doctrines when God's Word clearly says in Isa 5:13 and
other places "Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they
have no knowledge; and their honorable men are famished and their
multitude dried up with thirst"?
Where is this "relational love" clearly articulated in God's Word rather than
the extra Biblical doctrines when God's Word clearly says in Isa 5:13 and
other places "Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they
have no knowledge; and their honorable men are famished and their
multitude dried up with thirst"?
That knowledge puffs up -- that when we think we know something, we do
not yet know it as we ought. Now, if you do not care to include that principle in
your theology, fine. But it should be there.
not yet know it as we ought. Now, if you do not care to include that principle in
your theology, fine. But it should be there.
ATST we are not supposed to be ignorant JD. God does not bless ignorance -
so how do you reconcile the two in your own life? What in your words is this
principle?
so how do you reconcile the two in your own life? What in your words is this
principle?
If we think we know something, we do not know it as we ought but if we love
God, we ARE KNOWN BY HIM. That is how I justify those extremely rare
occasion when I am actually mistaken about something -- I rely on my
love for God and His promise to love me in return (but, of course,
"He started it!!")
God, we ARE KNOWN BY HIM. That is how I justify those extremely rare
occasion when I am actually mistaken about something -- I rely on my
love for God and His promise to love me in return (but, of course,
"He started it!!")
I understand 1 Cor 8:1-3 to be addressing those who are acting smart
over knowing that idols and other gods have no power so that their own
attitude would trip them up even if what they did know was right. jt
over knowing that idols and other gods have no power so that their own
attitude would trip them up even if what they did know was right. jt
Yes this is true. But beyond the specifics of this passage, there is that principle
thing -- we should always guard against becoming puff up because of what we
know. And the "truth" we know, I think will "puff" us up quicker than anything
because such knowledge actually works !!
Example: the most obnoxious carpenters in the trade are those who know
what they are doing and use this knowledge as a mark of superiority. JD
This might work with carpentry but it will not work with God because pride toes
before a fall - Also the more we understand in the wisdom of God the more we
see how destitute we are in and of ourselves and how needy; this certainly is
no cause to gloat over others. very well written. I could not agree more.
JD
