Judy, you are completely misunderstanding
Bill. When he speaks of the resurrection, he means bodies which are
transformed. You are reading right past him and seeing something that is
not there, much like John does to nearly all my posts.
I am reading what he is saying
David - you may have some inside insight toward him that I don't
have.
I read him saying the Jesus
the Christ was fully human (like us) which by nature is fallen in the first
Adam and ATST
Fully God - which is am
impossible dichotomy. He then went on to say that Jesus became
human so that he could
save humanity and take them to
heaven.
The mystery of Godliness, God manifest in
the flesh, is something taught in Scripture.
Yes, by way of the fullness of
the Holy Spirit in the body God provided for Him. Can you see it any
other way?
When you claim that the flesh of Jesus only
looked like our flesh but really was something very different, you are
deviating from the concept of "Christ was manifest in the flesh." You
think you are not because you still think he was flesh, but your flesh is an
alien flesh that you constantly say was UNLIKE our flesh when the Scriptures
say he was LIKE us.
The ONLY deviation in
what I say is my claim that Jesus was pure and holy from his birth which fact
makes his flesh
different from ours since ours
is fallen and we are the ones with the dichotomy of the two natures as
described by the apostle Paul in Romans 7:8. I say Jesus the Christ
had no such dichotomy although he was severely
tested/tempted
You seem to think that Bill makes Jesus too
much like us, but the Bible does not prohibit this viewpoint anywhere.
In fact, it argues strongly that he was like
us in every way.
I don't see any strong
arguments in scripture for His humanity to be exactly like ours - to the
contrary, YET WITHOUT SIN
says it all.
You have a problem understanding how there
can be unity between a God living in a defective
body. I don't blame you, but my experience of the living Christ
in me helps me understand how it works.
Think about it David; Satan
has been building strongholds and has had familiar spirits in us and our
families for generations.
As you know these do not leave
overnight - salvation is a walk of grace. Do you think for one moment
the demons would
dare to inhabit Jesus?
They wouldn't go anywhere near him, they were afraid he had come to torment
them before the time.
It is simply the Spirit filled life.
When the spirit reigns and the flesh is kept dead, this is how Jesus
lived. This is how we should live.
I know He left us an example
that we should follow in His steps and as a body the Church ought to be doing
the same works
However He lived and walked in
the kind of faith we have never ever seen duplicated. The miracles,
walking on water, raising
the dead. All we
have seen so far are a few crumbs.
I've already shared the relevant passages
from Hebrews that helps us with those. I hope you have not forgotten
them. I still think you ignore them and do not adequately address
them. If you would like me to post them again, just ask.
I would like to see them again
but can't guarantee a change of heart. I would need to see them by God's
Word - I'm sure
you know what I mean. I
get so frustrated that so much hinges on the Church Fathers. Why is
that?? How can they state
emphatically that Jesus is
fully human and fully God and that his humanity is not divine? What kind
of double talk is that??
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:52
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE
It is humanity which Christ came to save,
Judy. He did that by assuming human likeness.
What scripture do you base the above
on Bill? The same one from
Hebrews?
He was raised as well a human, Judy, and sits
at his Father's side: a human being.
So now you claim that a transformed
body without blood that is able to walk through
walls is in the likeness of our human
bodies Bill?
We will be resurrected human, as well
-- no longer with flesh and blood tainted body's
but with resurrected bodies; bodies
all-the-more human, Judy -- not un-human.
Really? This is "another gospel"
entirely - to claim that God just loves old nasty fallen
and mean humanity so much that He
can't do without each and every one in the same
heaven he cast the devil they are in cahoots with out of?
Do you cut out all the scriptures
that teach us the earthy is earthy so we must be
born into a New Creation and have a
complete overhaul to be fit for
heaven:
Our minds must be renewed (Rom
12:2)
Our souls need to be saved by the
engrafted word (James 1:21)
Our bodies must be transformed at the
last trump (1 Cor 15:52)
Cheeeesh,
That's what I say ...
Judyt
Bill
Also "Flesh and blood DO NOT
inherit God's Kingdom" Bill so what would be the
purpose??
"What would be the purpose" of what,
Judy; I don't understand the question.
Oh,
weren't we discussing your concept or marriage as a picture of the
unity of the Godhead?
The same is true with God. The
bible teaches that the Lord is "one" and it uses the same word when
saying this;
hence there is a oneness or unity
within the nature of God, a coming together of a plurality in
union
I am responding that God is a
Spirit and so the one flesh/marriage Godhead symbology kind of falls
flat.
So what would be the purpose of
illustrating God's Kingdom with something that can never inherit
it?
My hunch however is that it will be
because God so loved the world ...
Now where does the above fit into
this picture - says Judy scratching her head....
so there is no way that this would be the same concept
Bill.
Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not
create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).
OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and
what schism?
Oh, I thought you were married. The
bible says that you and your husband (if you had one) were to
become "one" flesh, in other words the two of you in coming
together would be united -- and not just physically, I might
add; it is the marriage "union" after all. The same is true with
God. The bible teaches that the Lord is "one" and it uses the
same word when saying this; hence there is a oneness or unity
within the nature of God, a coming together of a
plurality in union.
God is a Spirit (Jn
4:24) so there is no way that this would be the same concept
Bill.
Sure the Godhead are
One and united - in
Spirit.
And so, since you suggested that if
Christ be fully God and fully human there must be a schism, I
was just wondering about the schism you have with your man. Why
instead of schism aren't you united?
In marriage between
humans it is "one flesh" Bill
There would only be a schism
between the two natures of Christ if there were disunity
between the two.
The person of Christ had no
disunity; hence no schism. Bill
There would have been
disunity "big time" if he had a human nature - just like us and
was in fact wholly God ATST; schizophrenic would be the right term.
Also "Flesh and blood DO NOT inherit God's Kingdom" Bill so what
would
be the
purpose??
OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband,
and what schism?
And while you're at it, will
you explain your schism with your husband, too?
(If this needs clarification,
just ask)
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January
16, 2006 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: Fw:
[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
NOTDIVINE
----- Original Message
-----
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006
1:07:17 PM
Subject: Re: Fw:
[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
NOTDIVINE
Dean,
I think this is where
"theology" gets itself tied in knots. This is what JD
has been accusing me of for so long.
How ironic that his mentor
Bill would write something like this. I think
Lance just repeated it to qualify something.
So their Jesus must have a schism in his
personality (or nature). What about his saying to
Philip "If you have
seen me you have seen the Father" We know he
wasn't speaking of his physical body here; so does God
The Father also have a
schismatic personality.
cd: Judy can you define your usage of
'schismatic'.
Well, yes and
no, DH. I am included in that circle of love in
the way that Christ's humanity is included in that
relationship. But as the
humanity of Christ is not divine, neither am I
divine.
cd: Lance at this point- How do
you define
"Divine"?
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