On Tuesday 01 July 2008 18:26:17 Ashton wrote: > >I'll say it again, we are testing a dark theme to find out whether it is > > even > possible to use one or not. > > Getting this message out before the alpha release would have been a good > idea, in retrospect. I know there is no way to avoid TehMobMind over at > Digg and the inevitable comments from people who hold a bizarre fascination > with their own feces, the endlessly clever guesses about what the next > build code name should be, etc...but some of the other comments might have > been tempered if the writer at Ars was more informed (not that anyone at > Digg would RTFA) about the goals of the dark theme. (Actually, I think the > Ars piece was acceptable)
To be quite honest, I mentioned in the changelog that this is just for testing and didn't realize how many non-developers would actually look at the alpha. Live and learn :-) My assumption now is that the normal human theme (the murrine version, hopefully) is what we will fall back to unless a decison can be reached to change that. Ken > Alphas should absolutely be a place for playing around with ideas, testing > concepts...I don't think Digg or even Ars should be given room to > discourage experimentation. Some PlanetUbuntu posts might have helped. And > I'm wondering about the feasibility of some kind of doc/readme, slide show, > or even pre-loaded Tomboy note, that would pop up or sit on the desktop > only in the alphas, which would explain some of these things as well as > whatever other changes Ubuntu might be looking into. "With this release we > are exploring ... with this app, that app, and so on. Any constructive > criticism should be left at such and such place...blah blah. If you have > this hardware or that hardware we are particularly interested in your > experiences with blah-de-blah...Thanks for trying this build and aiding in > the growth of such and such." > > EveOnline and other endeavors suffer the same kind of "ZOMG I'm not > participating anymore because things have changed!!!" and even when they > try to be open and transparent by making use of dev blogs, audio > interviews, video interviews, (and in EveOnline's case an oft ignored test > server)...these reactions still exist. But at least they can point to some > effort to keep users informed. Whether users chose to read, listen, or view > the material is another matter. What you end up with are the informed vs > the uninformed, and they can duke it out with each other. > > Seems like most of this info is out there in different places for each > project. Having it gathered together and presented clearly and succinctly - > not talking about pages of technical info here, thinking about the kind of > thing displayed during an XP install...but more informative...um, and not > during the install - would get a more useful response out of the community, > instead of death threats, insults, and Mob fear reaction. > > NOW, for my question. :) > > If the dark theme is an experiment, what is the fallback? Is it "unity"? > Something else entirely? > > Ashton > > On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:17 AM, SorinN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I see the comments Julian - but I have some expertize in design so I > > can recognize values on that kind of things - so if someone wrote > > something -> must be true ..hmm, ...just because ???. > > > > for example if I remember well WE agreed on the past to not consider > > comments like : > > " That theme is a show stopper. Eww.." > > OR > > "Yeah. That theme makes me want to puke... I won't even give Ubuntu > > 8.10 a try if it ships with that crap as a default theme." > > OR > > "We thought you were "Cuckoo for Coco Puffs" not "Horny for Linux" > > OR > > "Jumping Jackrabbits!" > > > > Is someone has something to say ..arguments please, ... else millions > > of other forums wait out somewhere. > > > > On other hands, Ibex internal GUI team make not just big - but a huge > > mistake - all that peoples who think that a dark theme will succeed > > for a distro who wants to touch the mainstream - public institutions, > > enterprises and in general a large scale public - they just wrong. I > > like the theme, it's ok - but my professional opinion vote down. > > Sorry. I dream for an ..."every people" Ubuntu. On his most generously > > shape. > > > > This theme is perfect suitable for artists or for Gnome fans with some > > free time. > > > > To have a dark theme ( being the theme about we talk one other one, is > > unproductive - think about to peoples which work with forms > > everyday... > > > > U see, I not agree with a dark default theme too - because I am from > > the Design / GUI design area ( I got my money doing that ) but I make > > the difference - I know such kind of themes will not become too > > popular for the masses - but particularly I like the theme ( for me > > ), except the dark scrollbars and the pressed gnome buttons that are > > not very clear defined, so I give just an advice to author. > > > > Back to the the living beans planet, in forums I like explain my > > points of view and to stay away from my primary impulses ( thousands > > years of civilization should let some fingertips over peoples no ? ) > > so - I'll never say something like " this theme suck ...", because > > it's not my level. > > > > On short: > > > > 1. I vote down for this theme. Sorry. > > 2. I'll use this theme on my free time doing artworks, because I like > > it. I think I'll change the scrollbar color before ;) > > > > 2008/7/1 Julian Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > ..on or around Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 03:27:16PM +0300 SorinN wrote: > > >> regarding: > > >> > See the complaints? We cannot let this happen. This theme is even > > > > worse > > > > >> > then the default of Hardy.... > > >> > > >> 1. Well my question is about "worse" word. What is so worse .. ? > > >> > > >> 2. indeed some things could be improved. Scrollbars are almost > > >> invisible - which is not good - always you have to loose 1 or 2 > > >> seconds to focus your look to see if is something scrollable or not - > > >> but if the bar is colored and visible you will know from start if is > > >> something to scroll.... > > >> > > >> It's clear, the author is not a fervent reader of usability books - > > >> but hey - the rest is pretty clear and clean - he has talent he need > > >> ideas / help not this kind of remarks. > > >> > > >> 3. Criticism must be "positive" - I mean -> if something is not good > > >> -> let solve the problem, talk about problems not shoot the people... > > >> I'm got tired of "Neanderthal positivism" on almost all places - this > > >> community must think in a superior way. > > >> > > >> 4. Anyway this theme will make it's history between graphic artists, > > >> gamers - not office dedicated peoples, etc. On my opinion is one if > > >> the best dark theme that I see on last months - clearly defined > > >> buttons, elegant metacity theme. The only drawback -> scrollbars not > > >> visible. > > > > > > regardless, it's clear that many people feel very strongly that they > > > don't like the theme in its current iteration. i suggest you read some > > > of their comments. my experience of it is also that it's a pretty poor > > > dark theme. > > > > http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=174 > >096756&m=299007113931&r=299007113931 > > > > > from: > > > > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080629-horny-for-ubuntu-8-10-first > >-look-at-intrepid-ibex.html > > > > > regardless, instead of just diving in there now and making changes - > > > you fixing the scrollbars, me trying to return some sane contrast to > > > the colour palette - i feel it would be wise to provide a central forum > > > for /users/ of the theme to make constructive criticisms. it could take > > > the form of a sticky thread setup by one of the moderators at Ubuntu > > > Forums, alongside similar forums in other languages. > > > > > > currently, the criticisms are spread both too widely and in contexts > > > not constructive to collating well-meaning, useful feedback.. > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > -- > > > julian oliver > > > http://julianoliver.com > > > http://selectparks.net > > > messages containing HTML will not be read. > > > > > > -- > > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > -- > > Nemes Ioan Sorin > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art