Further more whether you like it or not tax collection and allocation must be part of the discussions on federalism and there is nothing wrong with that. Infact this one of the key issues around any system of government (Unitary of Federal) which if not amikably resolved can lead to a lot of problems. You bring up a lot of diversionary issues which are not really important, they only serve to disunite Ugandans (the usual scare tactics...preaching doom doom doom, which never comes). Supposing tomorrow large quantities of oil were found in Acholi land and most of government revenue was obtained from those resources, do you think the people Acholi (and rightly so) will not ask for a re-evaluation of the tax collection/allocation regime of the day? Have you been following the situation in Nigeria and the plight of the Niger/delta people of that region? and all the killing and mayhem that is going on there, well it is all emanating from Tax collection/allocation problems. So let's not decieve ourselves that it is not important. It maybe a difficult one to resolve but resolve it we must.
...and yes the political system we choose determines who we get to leader us. In my opinion you are putting the cart before the horse. You seem to be suggesting that Uganda is condemed to relying on the good will of her leaders instead of us as a nation puting in place a system that ensures that whoever we get as a leader will be forced by the system of the day not go beyond certain boundaries. In other words a good system should come with the appropriate checks and balances that curtail excesses of the leader of the day. This is why developed countries are developed, they are run by systems which are self monitoring and have all the checks needed but even then they have to be refined and perfected all the time so as to prevent and/or fix loop holes, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TOTAL PERFECTION.
I have said this and i will say it again, as much as we all sympathize with our brothers and sisters in the north and for that manner all over Uganda, the show must go on, government can't stop working because a part of the country is troubled, why because government is the people of Uganda and i particular hate it when you Mulindwa and Matek cheaply, shamelesly and cruely use the sad situation in the north of Uganda to score dirt cheap political points. Uganda IS NOT AT A STANDSTILL. Let us not give Kony and his thugs more credit then they deserve unless of course you are for them.
From: "Mulindwa Edward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:52:35 -0400
Mwaami Musaazi
Has it occurred to you that a good number of Ugandans are so oppressed in
their own country today that they do not even care whether it is federalism
or uniterism or KY or Movement? Has it occurred to you that all they want is
a right to sleep in their homes?
Secondly I want you to look very carefully at Nagadya's posting, it is the
usual complaint. I posted a good number of things we as Baganda must look at
if we are to move our Kingdom from the 1500 to 2003. I pointed out the
moving of the Buganda leadership to Bamunanika, I mentioned the putting
Buganda buildings on rent than using them as slams in the city, I talked
Sheraton using Bulange , I talked about the enormous land in Bamunanika
where we can expand the kingdom. Did Nagadya comment on any of those? No for
not only her self but any other Muganda does not want to talk about them for
then Buganda will have started to have critical thinkers. But she went for
taxes. Exactly that is what she can throw in the bowl. You see it is very
wrong for us to think that this Kingdom will survive for all of us kneel for
the king. We must start to think as if we are in 2003 and Nagadya can not.
What Nagadya can do is to tell you that in Texas they collect taxes, you are
as well giving me an example of Enron so if we have corruption in the
Americas why should we bother if it is in Uganda. Well Iddi Amin used to say
that why do you complain when one person is shot in Kampala, have you eve
been in Detroit? It is interesting that you decided to down play my
reasoning using an analogy of an illiterate man.
But let me then ask you this only question. Texas collects taxes, but Texas
creates jobs, and as state they decide on how much to tax depending on how
many jobs created. They use the same numbers to lower or totally remove the
same. Can you Mwaami Musaazi and Mukyaala Nagaddya tell me how many of your
relatives are employed, thanks to Mengo job creation? Or you are going to
tax our containers we sent to Uganda and graduated tax just as all old gover
nments have been doing? Or you want us as Ugandans allow you collect our
taxes and in the end you will create the jobs? How exactly is this going to
work?
I have stated before and I will state again, Uganda's problem is neither
uniterism nor Federalism, it is neither UPC nor DP, it is neither UPM nor
KY. Uganda's problem is LEADERSHIP. We need to create a system where all the
above modalities can work. If you remove Amin from power for he puts people
on Kalitunsi and shoots them, you end up with the movement which shoots them
with out trial. What is better? Stop blaming uniterism and ask your self one
question do I have a system in Uganda?
That might be a little complicated for you to answer though for you are not a critical thinker.
Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" ----- Original Message ----- From: "emmanuel musaazi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 2:42 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
> But Mulindwa, past errors should not stop us from moving forward. You talk
> about accountability in the US what about the ERON case and other on going
> corperate scandals which are unfolded are you suggesting that because of
> those problems, corperate America should be shut down. All systems be they
> in Uganda or America are run by human beings and i'm yet to see or hear of
a
> human run system that is 100% perfect. Look i would like to one day go to
> west nile, Acholi, Langi etc and see developments of the scale or even
> greater than what is found in Kampala or Buganda and probably even own a
> home there, i think your plan ties people down into an inferiority complex
> where non-Baganda feel they can not prosper anywhere else but in Buganda,
a
> good government should encourage development in every part of the country
> and i think that is what Mary is talking about.
>
> Please don't view every proposal different from yours as politically
> motivated, try to objectively analyze the LONG TERM MERITS to our country.
> Federalism has long term benefits to Uganda and the people who actually
> stand to benefit most are non-Baganda. The problem is as i have said
before
> most of the other groups are concentrating on what Buganda is proposing
> instead of coming up with there own views and ideas and this is where they
> may lose out, remember also that Federalism is not a winner take all
system
> it is a give and take system.
>
>
> >From: "Mulindwa Edward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
> >Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:15:47 -0400
> >
> >Mary Nagadya
> >
> >Let us tell the whole story, yes those taxes are paid on all levels in
> >America, but the levels as well have responsibilities they take with
those
> >collections. My self as Mulindwa, do not feel comfortable giving Mengo my
> >taxes so that they use it to put medicines in Buganda hospitals, when
they
> >can not tell me what happened to the monies that my father had saved in
> >Teefe Bank. And I am a Muganda. So let us not copy things from other
> >nations
> >and take them for granted that they will work in Uganda, and that is the
> >error we have done over and over. Instead of you coming to America and
you
> >pick up that statement in abstract of taxes collection, go back on the
> >drawing board and post on Uganda net what the Americans did before they
got
> >those responsibility/ies. Americans built a system, and it is a huge and
> >functioning system, they have accountability, you can not loot money from
a
> >State Bank and walk free, tell me one person in Buganda who was held
> >accountable for the failure of Teefe Bank? Let me lower the level of my
> >question, do you know him or her? Where is he or her? And that is the
same
> >cramped up face you are going to bring in to work on my taxes paid in
> >Buganda? No I am sorry. That is how screwed is the process being thrown
> >into
> >our throats of federalism. For it states, if you give Buganda an autonomy
> >of
> >some kind Buganda will become accountable. That is Bull and you and I
know
> >it.
> >
> >Many Ugandans have for example come into these nations and asked for a
> >simple thing credit card, many have asked huge limits on them, Nagadya
> >what
> >percentage of Ugandans still have those credits in your own city? And I
do
> >not know where you live. Oh let me give you another one, in all your
> >Ugandan
> >friends in your city, how many do you have that if you need 50,000
dollars
> >in 15 minutes, you can call this midnight? For those are the true Uganda
> >friends in America. You see because we come into these nations and we
think
> >that getting a credit card is a right, getting a mortgage is a right, no
it
> >is a privilege and you have to work for it, in other words you start by
> >getting a good income, and you do not need a credit card of 20,000
dollars
> >credit limit for the Bank will give it to you, may be you need one of 500
> >dollars. Accountability. Responsibility. We must work on the basement
> >before
> >we build the house, Ugandans start building by putting in the windows. It
> >is
> >sad that this is the same way you want to build our nation.
> >
> >But here is another good one, you state " There is a simple solution if
you
> >do not want to pay particular taxes. If you are a Yankee and do not want
to
> >pay Texas taxes: just do NOT live in Texas or whatever other state you
find
> >offensive. The same applies to other levels of government." That is the
> >very
> >reason why Ugandans will fight this kind of Federalism, Ugandans
especially
> >non Baganda have invested more money in Buganda than Baganda, and you
want
> >to start now threatening them with these fantasies? Okay we will stay on
> >the
> >side line and watch.
> >
> >And those are the problems you will face over and over for you have
refused
> >to do a proper home work, you have refused to discuss serious issues for
> >you
> >have one weapon you are using as "Shock and awe" You all hate Buganda.
> >Marry
> >Nagaddya it will hunt you at the end of the day. A good example is the
> >native Indians, can you tell me which reserve in America collects taxes
and
> >is developing its self using those taxes, yet they are as well in
America?
> >That can very easily happen as well in Uganda. Give Ugandans the whole
> >facts
> >don't be selective.
> >
> >All well.
> >Em
> >
> > The Mulindwas Communication Group
> >"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
> > Groupe de communication Mulindwas
> >"avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mary Nagadya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:04 PM
> >Subject: Re: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
> >
> >
> > > Dear Uganda Netters,
> > >
> > > Here is why I Haji Nadduli is spot on about the
> > > projects issue.
> > >
> > > In America, taxes are collected at the federal, state,
> > > county, and city levels.
> > >
> > > No one is forced to pay any of the lower taxes (here
> > > lower means sub-federal).
> > >
> > > There is a simple solution if you do not want to pay
> > > particular taxes. If you are a Yankee and do not want
> > > to pay Texas taxes: just do NOT live in Texas or
> > > whatever other state you find offensive. The same
> > > applies to other levels of government.
> > >
> > > Otherwise as long as you enjoy the services provided
> > > by a given government, you MUST pay all taxes due to
> > > that government.
> > >
> > > This prevents the practice of mooching, which means to
> > > live off other people's sweat like a parasite.
> > >
> > > There is no free lunch in America. Can we afford to
> > > have free luch in Uganda?
> > >
> > > This is one of the advantages of federalism. It is the
> > > surest way of ensuring that every part of Uganda
> > > develops.
> > >
> > > Those who live in Buganda must pay Buganda taxes, but
> > > they are welcome to pay whatever amount they want to
> > > their home districts.
> > >
> > > Mary.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Mulindwa Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > In as much as Naduli might be right or wrong, but
> > > > Buganda must and should start to think in the 21st
> > > > century. Buganda must look into investment, into job
> > > > creation, into creating tax bases. But you see it is
> > > > only comical when we complain on what we must be
> > > > given. That is why I was so amazed that I have spent
> > > > now almost three years preaching a gospel of
> > > > stopping graduated tax system in Uganda, for it is
> > > > surely the most primitive taxation one can look at.
> > > > But here I was and Buganda has put its foot down for
> > > > if it does not get taxation rights in Uganda it is
> > > > going to refuse the federalism. Where are the
> > > > critical thinkers in Buganda? Is there any nation
> > > > you know today that Uses graduated tax system for
> > > > its funds? It is primitive and it must be stopped
> > > > hence forth. But Buganda is crying for that and
> > > > today.
> > > > Then you look on another one, one of the Preachers
> > > > of Mengo sermon in the forum, last week reminded COO
> > > > that Buganda was given the Kampala tax base, which
> > > > included the Indians'buisnesses. Well but today the
> > > > Indians are no longer in Uganda, if they are there,
> > > > the tax base is not as it was, Again Buganda stop
> > > > thinking that you are still in the year 1500 this is
> > > > 2003 and moving and fast. For you can not help but
> > > > wonder, suppose NRM today gives Buganda a right to
> > > > collect tax who are they going to tax? Again my
> > > > embattled mother? And is Mengo sure that the
> > > > population will hand over the monies willingly? If
> > > > so how many Baganda are pumping money to help Mengo
> > > > today financially? The population cosmic has as well
> > > > changed, you will be amazed that today there are
> > > > more non-Baganda in Buganda, you do not believe me?
> > > > Try visiting Bweyogerere you will think that you are
> > > > in Mbaale, Are those good citizens going to pay
> > > > taxes to maintain the Buganda Kingdom? You see a
> > > > Mugisu might feel very comfortable paying his taxes
> > > > to NRM government for it is a Uganda government, but
> > > > will he pay it to run the Buganda government? Thos
> > > > are very serious questions Mengo must ask her self,
> > > > but you see we are not supposed to bring up such
> > > > questions for then, we are anti Buganda and working
> > > > for Obote who is the main employer of Ugandans these
> > > > days.
> > > > And I will say as I did some moths ago, we should
> > > > look at the assets, why keep the Mengo government in
> > > > Bulange, a government which does not raise any
> > > > funds. Squeezed in a national capital. Why don't we
> > > > move this government with the King to Bamunanika, we
> > > > go to Baamunanika and buy a whole land for the land
> > > > is actually available, we take our cultural leader
> > > > and vacate the Bulange and most of those Kampala
> > > > buildings. For trust me Sheraton can pay a good some
> > > > of money to Mengo if it uses that building, and it
> > > > will renovate it to the standards of the capital
> > > > city and Mengo will in the end be the winner, than
> > > > sticking with it and it is helping Kampala mice to
> > > > breed. You will one day get a strong mayor for
> > > > Kampala and he will shut it down, of what value is
> > > > that to Buganda?
> > > >
> > > > Identification crisis? Yes. But uncritical thinking?
> > > > Very poisonous, just watch as time goes by.
> > > >
> > > > Em
> > > >
> > > > The Mulindwas Communication Group
> > > > "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy"
> > > > Groupe de communication Mulindwas
> > > > "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans
> > > > l'anarchie"
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Omar Kezimbira
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 5:48 PM
> > > > Subject: ugnet_: Nadduli Defends Land Sale
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nadduli Defends Land Sale
> > > >
> > > > By Richard Komakech
> > > > THE Luweero district chairman has challenged
> > > > the Mengo government to devise projects that will
> > > > help the Baganda utilise their land instead of
> > > > selling it.
> > > > Haji Abdul Nadduli, commenting on the
> > > > ongoing row between the kingdom and Property
> > > > Masters, a Kampala real estate agency, said the
> > > > Baganda are trying to fight poverty through selling
> > > > their land.
> > > > "We only need to revive our economy and land
> > > > sale will stop. Property Masters is not the problem,
> > > > but are just mediators between Baganda who want to
> > > > sell their land and those who want to buy it,"
> > > > Nadduli said.
> > > > "Why won't a peasant sell his land if there
> > > > are people willing to buy it?" he said.
> > > > Nadduli said the sale was a positive move
> > > > towards decongesting urban centres of slums.
> > > > Buganda kingdom's Lukiiko (parliament) last
> > > > week banned Property Masters from advertising on the
> > > > kingdom's radio, Central Broadcasting Service (CBS).
> > > >
> > > > The Lukiiko said Property Masters' business
> > > > dealings are a deliberate move to deprive the
> > > > Baganda of their land.
> > > > Kabaka Ronald Muwenda Mutebi and his
> > > > katikkiro Joseph Ssemwogerere have at several
> > > > occasions attacked Property Masters over their
> > > > business.
> > > > "I cannot concur with this argument.
> > > > However, much as we cry about land sale, we can't do
> > > > much except finding gainful economic activity for
> > > > the subjects," Nadduli said.
> > > > Property Masters' boss, Peter Kasulu,
> > > > recently cut ties with CBS after Ssemwogerere
> > > > accused him of masterminding a plan to rip the
> > > > Baganda of their land.
> > > > Ends
> > > >
> > > > Published on: Monday, 29th September, 2003
> > > >
> > > > Email this article to a friend.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >----
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
> > > > search
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > > This service is hosted on the Infocom network
> > > http://www.infocom.co.ug
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------
> >This service is hosted on the Infocom network
> >http://www.infocom.co.ug
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> This service is hosted on the Infocom network
> http://www.infocom.co.ug
>
>
-------------------------------------------- This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
-------------------------------------------- This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
