I'd vote yes. There are so many online resources, some free, some not, that I'd be surprised if you can't get a better bang for your buck by stepping away from U of P.
You can find a directory of MOOC's and other online resources at http://www.noexcuselist.com/ . Note that in addition the "Computer Programming" section, there are also computer science resources listed under "Academics", e.g. Khan, Coursera, MIT, edX. In fact, get the best job you can for your skill level, whether local or working remote, and learn on the job. Then you're not only not spending money, you're getting paid. When you start to get bored with your work, upgrade your job. It'd be a shame for your skills to be stuck in the classroom when there are so many companies clamoring for programmers. See https://weworkremotely.com for jobs you could take from Price. Or do projects on Elance.com or Odesk.com. If formal education or the paper degree later become important to your career ambitions, I recently saw that Georgia Tech is now offering an online master's degree: https://www.udacity.com/georgia-tech Richard In fact, you could find the best job at your skill level, learn on the job, then switch > I've enjoyed the answers thus far, but I do want to ask a followup > question. I am currently attending University of Phoenix and *have *found > it to be an expensive self education. Would my time and money be better > placed in putting together a portfolio of projects that show what I already > know as well as continue with self teaching? (I live in Price and it would > take a while to get up to UVU or anywhere that has a computer science or > software engineering degree) > > Thanks again, everyone! > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Mac Newbold <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I would second a lot of what Aleksei said, too. Some kind of test, whether >> a short project, or some interview questions where they write code, or at >> least some kind of code review of some work in their portfolio, is worth >> its weight in gold. I've been surprised at people who manage to get 10+ >> years of experience in the field, and then you ask them some relatively >> easy things and they fail miserably. On the other hand, I've also seen >> people with no formal training at all who do great in the interview, and >> even better on the job. >> >> I think you're absolutely right about employers who have a hard and fast >> rule about requiring degrees. Especially in our field, a degree does not >> have a really strong correlation to ability to succeed in any particular >> job. I've found that since so few universities really have a robust course >> offering in web development, many of the skills I care about most aren't >> even on the curriculum. That said, often a CS (or related) degree, at least >> from the right schools, can really broaden a candiates perspective and help >> them know how their piece of the puzzle will interact with all the other >> components around it, which can definitely be a valuable asset. But the >> proof is in the pudding, as Aleksei explains so well. >> >> Thanks, >> Mac >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Alexandros Nipirakis >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> I have no idea how this factors in, but I will give my 0.02 in case it is >>> at all useful to anyone. (I am new to the community, and this is >> probably >>> a good place to introduce myself at least a little while adding my voice >> to >>> the conversation ;) ). >>> >>> I am an IT Manager for a local company and have been in IT for about 15 >>> years (ever since high school, where i actually worked in the IT >> department >>> of my school system as an assistant to our net admin for pay). I have >>> worked for my current company for about ten years, and moved up from a >>> simple programmer to my current position. >>> >>> I do not (currently) have a BS degree. >>> >>> My only education is with ITT Tech where I got my Associates Degree in >>> "Applied Science with an Emphasis on Computer Network Systems" in 2004. >>> >>> With that said, I used to mentor a FRC team (US FIRST team 1557 in >> Eustis, >>> FL), and any student that even mentioned that they were thinking about >>> going to ITT, I would tell them to avoid it at all costs. Yes, there >> are >>> a FEW people like me that had some experience before going, safely got >>> through learning almost nothing new, getting a piece of paper and making >>> somewhat good money afterwards. Then, there are the vast majority (I >> would >>> call it 70%, but I am probably underestimating the problem) that leave >> with >>> no experience or knowledge and a $50,000 school debt and working at a 12 >>> dollar an hour help desk position with little (if any) hope for growth. >>> >>> Many of the people I went to school with couldn't manage a network for >>> anything, and still couldn't after the two years we were in school. I >>> haven't kept up with any of them (this was two moves ago back in Detroit, >>> and I graduated in 2004 at that), but I would guess most of them are not >>> doing anything having to do with their degree. Or, they are part of that >>> lie of a statistic that ITT will throw out there for someone working as a >>> cashier at Best Buy but calling it in the "IT industry." >>> >>> I cringe when I see one of their commercials on TV, and thankfully I have >>> never been asked to be on one of them (though I did speak at our >>> commencement for the IT program). >>> >>> I have never gone to Phoenix or Devry, but I used to work with a group of >>> people who graduated from Devry around the time I graduated from ITT. >> They >>> were good - and they all thought very highly of Devry (my guess is about >>> the same for U of Phoenix, and I have talked to people who went there >> too, >>> with similar experiences). >>> >>> Fast forward to about two years ago, I was hiring for a report writer. >> My >>> needs were pretty simple, you had to be able to operate in SQL server, >> know >>> something about programming, and generally be a "technical" person (one >> of >>> my questions was "have you ever tried to program your cell phone" just to >>> see if the person was a "tinkerer"). >>> >>> Everyone from Devry failed miserably. Most of them couldn't even tell me >>> how you would get data from a table (much like James's question), or even >>> be able to log in to Management Studio (keep in mind, this was after I >>> warned each person what they were expected to do). >>> >>> FWIW, I also had a candidate from a public university (cannot remember >>> which one) who also failed miserably, but his degree was about 20 years >>> old. >>> >>> For myself, I am currently going to Western Governors University. I need >>> the piece of paper, and WGU's way of doing things works great for my >>> current schedule (you take tests whenever the test center allows you to, >>> everything is online, and you don't have a set schedule). The school is >>> regionally and nationally accredited (FWIW), and I have found that even >>> with my extensive background in IT, that some of the classes are actually >>> providing me with new information. I would certainly suggest it for >> anyone >>> who is thinking about going to a for profit college because of time >>> restrictions if for no other reason than it is accredited and relatively >>> cheap (a year costs about $6,000.00 which you can't touch at either Devry >>> or Phoenix and you can't even take three classes at ITT for that). >>> >>> Given my expereince at WGU, I would certainly not hold it against someone >>> if they graduated from there, but I wouldn't hire them just because of it >>> either. >>> >>> If I were in the market to hire a developer, I would make them actually >>> program. Anyone who hires someone based on a college degree or >> experience >>> alone deserves to end up with someone who doesn't know how to program. >> The >>> caveat being that if someone actually has code in the wild and uses that >> as >>> part of their interview I would say that is a good indicator, but I would >>> still be a huge proponent of testing as part of the hiring process. >>> >>> I know that there are plenty of people who probably wouldn't hire me >> right >>> now because I don't have a bachelor's degree. >>> >>> I am sure that there are some who might not even after I graduate from >> WGU. >>> >>> >>> That's their decision, and IMHO their loss. >>> >>> A degree doesn't mean jack if you can't program or actually do what it >> says >>> on the piece of paper, and in my experience plenty of people who graduate >>> from notable universities (a person I used to know who had an advanced >>> degree from a public university comes to mind) who still can't program, >> or >>> who write programs that are absolutely rubbish and not worth the bits >> they >>> are stored in. There are also plenty of programmers who are reasonably >>> good at writing good code, but who know almost nothing about IT in >> general, >>> but that's a completely different subject all together ;). >>> >>> I have always looked at a degree as a "I sat through four years of crap" >>> license. It basically means you can start and finish something, which >>> isn't nothing but it isn't everything. >>> >>> Again, my 0.02. I may be an anomaly, but I wouldn't not hire someone >>> because they didn't go to a notable university, but (having been burned >> in >>> the not so recent past) I also don't hire people based on what they say >>> they can do, or where they sat for four years. >>> >>> I hire people who can actually do what they say they can do. In other >>> words, actions speak louder than words. >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> Aleksei >>> >>> >>> On 24 March 2014 14:07, James Noble <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Kevin Jensen <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have a quick question. For those that hire, how important is the >>>>> institution that a prospective employee received his or her degree? >> By >>>> that >>>>> I mean does an applicant that received a BS from the University of >> Utah >>>>> seem more desirable than someone who received their degree from >>>> University >>>>> of Phoenix? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I have done some hiring and the worst candidates I had were graduates >>> from >>>> the University of Phoenix. I don't want to say that everyone that goes >>>> there can't program but that is my experience. I asked two questions >> to >>> a >>>> couple of candidates. I asked them to write a select statement from a >>>> table to get all data from the table. I also asked them to write a >> loop >>>> statement. I am not sure why I asked them to do this because I don't >>>> normally but the candidates I asked this were unable to do it. I got >>> the >>>> feeling that for profit colleges were more interested in passing >> someone >>>> than teaching them. >>>> >>>> If you are looking for where to go personally then I agree with what >> has >>>> already been said. Work experience trumps school names. When I went >> to >>>> school some students were getting a BS because their work required it >> to >>>> advance in the company. If that is the case then just look at the cost >>> of >>>> the school compared with the time to graduate and the expected salary >>> bump. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> UPHPU mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu >>>> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> UPHPU mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu >>> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mac Newbold >> [email protected] >> 801-694-6334 >> <http://www.codegreene.com> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> UPHPU mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu >> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > > UPHPU mailing list > [email protected] > http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu > IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net _______________________________________________ UPHPU mailing list [email protected] http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net
