On 14 Nov 2006, at 15:09, Bernard Devlin wrote:
Dave said:
>>
I'm not talking about "me", I'm talking about trying to sell it to a
whole programming department that is currently using a mix of Macs,
Windows and Linux machines and programming tools such as C/C++,
RealBasic, AppleScript, XML, PDF, PERL, JavaScript, etc.
<<
But why are you trying to 'sell' Rev to these people? What's the
benefit for them?
They already have several cross-platform dev tools (RealBasic,
Perl, Javascript). What do you think that Rev would give them that
they don't already have? Transcript/xCard is a completely
different programming paradigm to any of those dev tools. What do
you see that Rev brings to them that they don't already have? What
can justify them learning a new paradigm? How are you trying to
sell it to them? By pointing out how buggy it is? By pointing out
how they should get free updates for the first year? By pointing
out how insecure you think the company's future is? Maybe your
frustrations with your department not using Rev is being taken out
on Rev itself?
The point is that all those technologies could be replaced by RunRev
and the whole system would be much more stable. They are finding it
really hard to find the right people because of all the different
technologies and tools involved. In short it would be much better and
reliable to use RunRev and would save them money and allow them to
extend their system much more easily.
Maybe your frustrations with your department not using Rev is
being taken out on Rev itself?
Not at all! I'm quite happy either way since I still get paid! The
only one losing out is RunRev Limited.
You've got to accent the positive. I'm using Rev to build cross-
platform tools (installers, GUI controls for monitoring processes)
and as a rich, highly dynamic, componentized, presentation tier in
n-tier applications. There are very few tools that suit my needs
in the case of the latter, and none that I know of that could also
be used to do the former as well. In fact, I also see a time where
I will be using Rev to build tools to replace many of the tools
used in my middleware environment. In my case, Rev is the right
tool for the jobs I'm using it for. I have been able to sell Rev
(literally) to other people because I have shown them some of the
benefits it holds for them.
I've done all that. The proof is in the pudding and with all the
problems in 2.7.x (especially on the Windows) and then news that the
basic price didn't include bug fixes/support (I hadn't realized that
it had changed) put them off. I'm still using 2.6,6 to build some
apps for them and maybe they'll move to RunRev in the future, but for
now, it's no-go!
Most programmers are quite opinionated (I might even go so far as
to say bigoted). You are going to need compelling reasons to
convince a C programmer or a Perl scripter to adopt Rev. I worked
in a team of 6 developers. The Java/Oracle people would not look
at anything that did not come from IBM, because any company smaller
than Oracle or IBM was too risky (despite the fact that they'd
followed IBM solutions down more than one dead end road), and they
were always looking to have skills to sell to their next employer.
I've got all the convincing arguments etc. They were quite happy to
go down the RunRev route but the stuff mentioned above put them off.
You've said yourself that you want to be using tools that have
widespread adoption. You could remove all bugs in Rev, and all
policies you don't like from RunRev, and I think we'd all be
retired before Rev would have as wide adoption as JavaScript,
Perl, or even AppleScript.
I can't believe you called me pessimistic! I find this post to very
pessimistic basically saying it's a toy, don't try to make it
mainstream, give up now cos it will never happen!
All the Best
Dave
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