Hi, Wow that is a very technical and helpful post.
I think the tool should be flexible Because Apache is flexible. Regarding maintaining a web server with multiple configuration, I think the tool should handle every configuration as a separate item. This will ease things. Regarding that some control panels break from changing the configuration file manually, I think the tool will not have such a problem. The tool can give the user the option to ignore some directives. One final note, I do not want to rush things now. I really want to at least start the tool and let it handle some basic configuration and get feedback from the community. at least we have a proof of concept rather than just a hypothetical tool. Regards On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Sean Conner <s...@conman.org> wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Mohammed obaidan once stated: > > Hi, > > > > Apache is not for web server admins. what about developers? What about > home > > servers? What about users that needs a certain web application on their > > intranet? do they need to be web server admins to use Apache? certainly > not. > > No. But most default Apache installations pretty much work out of the > box. And most web developers tend to have to learn how to use .htaccess > files if they want some control over their websites. > > > I think I need to clear some points here before this discussion goes on a > > different direction. > > > > 1. This tool in its final form will do everything you can do with a text > > editor to configure Apache. However it will not be a replacement for a > the > > text editor because the tool will handle Apache and the modules that > comes > > with it. > > How flexible will this tool be? I currently maintain my own webserver > and > have a particular setup of files: > > /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf > /etc/httpd/conf.d/* (various conf files) > /home/spc/web/sites/ > www.conman.org/ > site.conf (Apache conf stuff) > htdocs/ > cgi-bin/ > boston.conman.org/ > site.conf (Apache conf stuff) > htdocs/ > journal/ > secure.conman.org/ > site.conf (Apache conf stuff) > htdocs/ > s-htdocs/ > cgi-bin/ > (and so on) > > Some of our servers have the following structure: > > /etc/httpd/ > conf/httpd.conf > conf.d/* > sites/###.conf > /home/virtual/example.net/var/www/html/ > > And yet some others have: > > /etc/httpd/ > conf/httpd.conf > conf.d/* > sites/* > /home/user/public_html/ > > Will I be able install your tool and have it just work? What about moving > sites from server to server? Or will the tool "do its own thing?" > > Also, we use a couple of different control panels, each with their own > interface to Apache. The major problem I have with these is that often > times, I know how to fix a particular problem within Apache, by modifying > the configuration files directly, but doing so breaks the control panel. I > can fix it, but I can't, because the control panel limits what I can and > can't do. > > For instance, most (at least, the ones we use) GUIs for Apache will ask > something like: > > Server Name: [________________________] > Server Aliases: [________________________] > > and generate a configuration like: > > <VirtualHost 10.10.10.10:80> > ServerName www.example.net > ServerAlias example.net > ... > </VirtualHost> > > Fine. It works. But for SEO [1] you *really* want something like: > > <VirtualHost 10.10.10.10:80> > ServerName example.net > Redirect permanent http://www.example.net/ > </VirtualHost> > > <VirtualHost 10.10.10.10:80> > ServerName www.example.net > ... > </VirtualHost> > > And some of our customers (I work at a small webhosting company) wanted > just exactly that. > > Can't do something *that simple* through the control panels we have. And > when I "fixed" it by hand, it *broke* the control panel. I eventually had > to set up a separate Apache *just to handle this type of redirect.* > > > 2. Do not worry about GUI complexities. These can be solved easily. > > I personally believe it's harder than you think, if only because of > special cases like above (two ways to handle server aliases). Or the > multiple ways of handling redirects (Redirect vs. mod_rewrite), or the use > of .htaccess (I don't use .htaccess for my personal websites; we have to > allow it for our customers) (oh, and that brings up another issue---about a > year ago I merged all the .htaccess files for my sites into the main conf > files---that's another thing you need to handle). > > I've also read that most people only use about 10% of the features of > Microsoft Word, it's just that each person uses a different 10%. > > > 3. Apache is not for admins only. It is used by developers, home servers, > > local intranets. You do not need to be a web server admin to use Apache. > > > > 4. I wanted to make this tool because I am a developer and have a home > > server. I want to configure Apache to suit my needs without the need to > hack > > a text editor and read the documentation of a certain feature of Apache. > > And that's fine. But then you need to move the site from your > development > server to the deployment server ... > > > 5. This tool can be extended later to include useful tools. As I said > before > > the aim is a complete Apache admin tool the first step is a GUI for > > httpd.conf. > > > > 6. I think I will start building the tool and at least let the community > > test the tool and get a feedback whether this tool will be useful or not. > > For 90, 95% of all websites out there, a simple configuration is all you > need. It's for the other 5-10% that things get complex quickly. I have a > site that uses SSL client certificates for authentication and well ... > that's a default part of Apache. A lot of my sites use Basic and Digest > authentication (so, how do you handle "user accounts" in such a case?). > Oh, > and I forgot about the site that uses AddDescription. And another one > that's a reverse proxy. And custom error documents. > > Wow, I do use a lot of Apache functionality. > > I only bring up all these points because I use Apache. A lot. In a lot > of different configurations. And frankly, I can't image anything being > "easier" to use than the Apache configuration file. > > One more example before I go---a project at work: > > <VirtualHost 10.10.10.10:80> > ServerName project-mysql.example.com > DocumentRoot /var/www/project/htdocs-mysql > DirectoryIndex index.html index.php > Alias /CSS/ > "/home/spc/source/project/htdocs/layout/CSS/" > Alias /images/ > "/home/spc/source/project/htdocs/layout/images/" > Alias / "/home/spc/source/project/htdocs/logic/" > > <Directory /var/www/project/htdocs-mysql> > Options All > AllowOverride None > </Directory> > </VirtualHost> > > <VirtualHost 10.10.10.10:80> > ServerName project-postgresql.example.com > DocumentRoot /var/www/project/htdocs-pg > DirectoryIndex index.html index.php > Alias /CSS/ > "/home/spc/source/project/htdocs/layout/CSS/" > Alias /images/ > "/home/spc/source/project/htdocs/layout/images/" > Alias / "/home/spc/source/project/htdocs/logic/" > > <Directory /var/www/project/htdocs-pg> > Options All > AllowOverride None > </Directory> > </VirtualHost> > > It's a PHP project. PHP files for both sites are in a central location > (via > the Alias directive), although I do have an actual DocumentRoot where site > specific files live (where PHP can reference them via > $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']). I really would be interested in seeing a GUI > handle such an Apache configuration. > > -spc (Then again, I'm probably not your target audience ... ) > > [1] Search Engine Optimization > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project. > See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info. > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@httpd.apache.org > " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscr...@httpd.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@httpd.apache.org > >
