On 24-Feb-09, at 8:12 AM, Jon Georg Berentsen wrote:
Jason,
This blogpost,
http://tech.puredanger.com/2009/01/28/maven-adoption-curve/
, sparked quite a debate in my company.
We have been quite the early adopters with maven, and have seen the
benefits etc. etc., but it seem like this "Ant/script to Maven, what
do
we get, we only got trouble" fight has to be fought all the time with
clients and new co workers.
In your experience who adopt and embrace maven?
People who try it and have something that works.
If it doesn't work for you then don't use it. I'm not very preachy
about Maven and I've never tried to convert people to use it. I don't
think that would generally work anyway. If Ant or scripting languages
work for you then use them.
Is it always the "I have seen the need"-people?
Or do you have to have a maven Maven guy preaching?
I don't think you'll get very far if the team doesn't buy into it. Any
organization who listens to one preachy guy and then adopts Maven is
not going to get very far.
It seems, to me, that if none of the two is present, Maven is often
considered a hassel and pain.
Often people don't read any documentation, think a build is just
something that requires no maintenance and is just going to work, or
are just completely accustom to Ant that anything different seems like
a hassle. We get lots of people telling us all the time that they
think Maven is great and works well for them.
Often, if used, Maven also becomes a "specialist" skill.
One or two persons know it, the rest just use it, and can't fix it if
something is broken.
I honestly have not found that to be the case when developers are
prepared. If you took two people who don't know either Ant or Maven
you would probably have an equal amount of difficulty. You get used to
what you use. Project who think that they can get away without
investing something in the infrastructure and training about it are
going to have problems. Many people think build and release management
is just some appendage to their project. Your project is not going to
work if the infrastructure doesn't work.
I have often heard that the reason for this is that Ant is very
transparent in what it does. Maven is not.
I really don't think that's the case. I think people have just used
Ant for a long time and they are used to it.
Does this raise the bar for adoption?
I don't think so. Traffic on Maven central has grown incredibly over
the last year (on the order of 200M hits/month) and it continues to
grow. So Maven is still being adopted all the time because the number
of unique IPs keeps growing. So empirically we're seeing an increase
in adoption as time passes.
Project size/complexity and skills matter?
Nope. I know lots people who use Maven on small projects and we have
clients who build project that are 6M lines of code. Some are build
and release engineers, most of them are just developers.
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason van Zyl [mailto:jvan...@sonatype.com]
Sent: 24. februar 2009 16:32
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: Mavenizing Existing Project Part Deux
Do make your first Maven project a conversion. You will likely fail or
be extremely unhappy. I have seen this a hundred times now and trying
to wedge Maven into what you currently have is categorically not a
good idea.
Find a new, preferably small, project where you can try out Maven and
understand fully what it does before you attempt to convert a project.
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Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
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Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead.
-- Benjamin Franklin
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