Thanks Marko Galesic for explanation what you think. Now, my understanding is, issues are created only from JIRA, and votes are transferred from Trello to JIRA.
I agree on make end-user participation more easy. However, synchronizing two different issue tracker sounds very easy to be error prone whether they are automated or not. I think we should consider simpler solution first before we go complicated one. Also Duy Hai DOAN raised very valid concerns. I think JIRA Dashboard have enough flexibility to make Trello like board. One example is https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=12317510. With instructions for how to create issue, how to vote on issue, i believe it helps end-user participation without introducing much complexity. Best, moon On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:24 PM DuyHai Doan <doanduy...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm a bit skeptical about duplicating tickets in JIRA & Trello for some > reasons > > 1 Single Point Of Failure. > > As you said yourself: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take > what in my opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin and then, > yes, *I would manually add those cards to Trello*." > > This would mean that you become the SPOF for JIRA/Trello synchronization > process. What if tomorrow you have an accident (I'm not hoping for this of > course) and are unavailable for a long time ? > > I believe that the idea of community hold projects like Apache projects is > to spread responsibility and risks to avoid having a Single Point Of > Failure. If the synchronization between Trello and JIRA can be automatized > then it will be fine. > > > 2. Decision transparency & shared responsibility > > I quote: "My plan is to check JIRA weekly and *only take what in my > opinion are mid to high level features within Zeppelin* and then, yes, I > would manually add those cards to Trello." > > Again, this selection process of what is mid/high level features for > Zeppelin should be done through community discussion on public space, based > on clear evidence of why people think such or such features are important, > not by a single person. At least that is how I understood about > community-led projects philosophy. > > > Regards > > Duy Hai DOAN > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Marko Galesic < > marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: > >> Hi moon, >> >> >> >> - Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for >> non-developers. >> >> >> >> No, Trello would only reflect issues created in JIRA. Users could go >> through JIRA or the mailing list to have new tickets created. >> >> >> >> - And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. >> >> >> >> No issues would be created in JIRA through Trello. However, the vote on a >> card in Trello would be reflected back into the corresponding JIRA ticket. >> >> >> >> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello >> >> >> >> No issue would be created in JIRA from Trello. However, since I only >> create cards in Trello based off of tickets in JIRA (e.g. ZEPPELIN-35 is >> the “Icons with Tooltips” card in Trello under “UI”), the votes from that >> card would get linked to the votes in the appropriate JIRA ticket. For now, >> this would be a manual process, but I don’t see a reason it couldn’t be >> automated. >> >> >> >> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will >> someone manually add to Trello? >> >> >> >> My plan is to check JIRA weekly and only take what in my opinion are mid >> to high level features within Zeppelin and then, yes, I would manually add >> those cards to Trello. >> >> >> >> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not >> synchronized between trello and JIRA) >> >> >> >> This is where it would be more open than JIRA. Users would have an easier >> way to vote on things, and, no, they would not need an Apache account. >> However, existing users with apache accounts could still sign up with >> Trello. I wasn’t planning on having a way of tracking who specifically >> voted, my thought is that, again, votes would be used in part of the >> process of feature prioritization - **not** replacing it. >> >> >> >> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool >> that is easier than Trello for end-users? >> >> >> >> Either this easier-to-use layer will stop existing or somebody would >> volunteer to maintain the next version. I don’t know about the history of >> ASF well enough, but I’m assuming ASF did not always use JIRA for issue >> tracking and that it may have been an organic process to get JIRA as a the >> de facto issue tracker for ASF. >> >> >> >> - Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make >> easy instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the >> same problem. >> >> >> >> Sure. I did a quick Google search and did find Zapier – however that’s >> pay-to-use at a certain threshold. What would you suggest? >> >> >> >> Good questions J. >> >> >> >> Marko >> >> *From:* moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] >> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 5:01 AM >> *To:* users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >> >> *Subject:* Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >> Zeppelin >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I think we need more discussion on it. I'm not really convinced to use >> two separate issue tracker. >> >> >> >> In my understanding, problem is, >> >> * JIRA is not friendly to non-developers. >> >> >> >> Solution proposed from Marko Galesic is, >> >> * Let user create issue on Trello, which has friendly UI for >> non-developers. >> >> * And create issue on JIRA based on vote on Trello. >> >> >> >> To me, It's not clear that >> >> - When/How issue is created in JIRA, based on vote in Trello >> >> - How issues created by JIRA are handled in Trello. Will someone manually >> add to Trello? >> >> - Who will be 'reporter' field in JIRA (User accounts are not >> synchronized between trello and JIRA) >> >> - What will happen, later if someone ask move to the other tool that is >> easier than Trello for end-users? >> >> >> >> My opinion is, >> >> Why not just create Trello like Dashboard in JIRA and make easy >> instruction for creating issue for end user. That would also solve the same >> problem. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> moon >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:23 AM Marko Galesic < >> marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >> >> Alexander, >> >> -- Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted >> JIRA, but together with it >> >> Yes >> >> -- Are volunteering to support it as a tool for prioritizing user's >> feedback >> >> Yes >> >> -- Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the >> d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project >> developers to use it? >> >> I wouldn't be against it. I think the important part is that if the >> Trello board needs buy in from devs to reflect votes made in Trello to JIRA >> + to use those votes as a factor in feature development prioritization, >> then the next step would be to open a thread on >> d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org. Alexander, do you want to create the >> thread or should I? I am willing to explain the idea to devs. >> >> The Trello board is open to the public, so anybody that is a member of >> Trello will be able to vote. >> >> >> I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it as an experiment. I'm also >> happy to volunteer time maintaining it, and I already have. >> >> >> The thought is, again, link votes in Trello to appropriate JIRA tickets. >> Comments made in a card in Trello would not be reflected in JIRA, but >> developers may get information from end-users that way. >> >> Those are my thoughts, >> Marko >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alexander Bezzubov [mailto:abezzu...@nflabs.com] >> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:40 PM >> To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >> Zeppelin >> >> Guys, >> >> thank you for great suggestions! >> >> Am I right that you suggest using Trello not instead of ASF hosted JIRA, >> but together with it, and are volunteering to support it as a tool for >> prioritizing user's feedback? >> >> Also, how do you think, should we then move further discussion to the >> d...@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org as, I assume, you want project >> developers to use it? >> >> Personally, am not aware of anything that JIRA with the plugins can not >> do, that trello can. But I see your point of having a simpler and more >> user-friendly tool for the end user's feedback. >> >> Although question about whether the benefits at the end worth supporting >> two systems is still is still open, I would be in favor of making an >> experiment and giving it a try, in case somebody volunteers to manage >> second one. >> >> What do you think? >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Marko Galesic < >> marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >> > Hello A B! >> > >> > >> > >> > I’m really glad that you like the idea! I made sure that the board’s >> > voting is public. However, you *do* need to be a Trello member in order >> to vote. >> > You can use your Google account to sign in or create an account >> > through Trello. >> > >> > >> > >> > I found more projects that use Trello as a Roadmapping tool: >> > http://blog.trello.com/going-public-roadmapping-with-a-public-trello-b >> > oard/ >> > >> > >> > >> > Marko >> > >> > >> > >> > From: A B [mailto:netzbewoh...@gmail.com] >> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:23 PM >> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >> > >> > >> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >> > Zeppelin >> > >> > >> > >> > Hi guys! >> > >> > I find the suggestion to vote via trello totally cool and would support >> it. >> > So if everyone is OK with this, let's do this. >> > >> > >> > >> > I was looking for such a possibility to have a community process to >> > prioritize something for quite some time (have also played with >> > various JIRA >> > workarounds) - but this just blows my mind. Wish I had known it before >> > :) >> > >> > >> > >> > Marko, pls check if you set rights correctly - i cant vote. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Marko Galesic >> > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hi moon, >> > >> > >> > >> > I see your point that there would be overhead in managing two systems. >> > However, I don’t believe that working within JIRA will achieve what >> > I’m thinking of. I’m impressed there are people who use JIRA and seem >> > to be end users; however, I speculate that these are advanced users – >> > edging on developers rather than purely data scientists. There needs >> > to be a separation between what the users want and backend >> > implementation. An artist doesn’t necessarily tell the rendering >> > engineer how to program a photo-realistic renderer; he just says “I >> > want it to be easier to do X and be able to better control Y”. I’ll >> > keep maintaining the board. You are at least one person that is aware >> > of it, and there may be others. I’ve talked with co-workers, and they >> like the idea. >> > >> > >> > >> > There are two big things I see preventing me from posting\editing >> > stuff, if I did: >> > >> > 1. I don’t have access to edit JIRA >> > >> > 2. Others may not necessarily agree with my interpretation of the >> > issues (I edit the titles and prune to what I think is relevant, which >> > is a guess, at best, right now). >> > >> > >> > >> > The real thought behind all of this is that the community would use >> > the votes on specific cards as direction (or at least give an >> > indication of what people are excited about); however, those cards are >> > curated by me : /. I’m biased. This is a relatively esoteric project, >> > so there is some inherent protection against trolls. >> > >> > >> > >> > ---- All I’d ask is that votes could be reflected from this board to >> > JIRA; it doesn’t seem like people vote on things, anyway --- >> > >> > >> > >> > I do believe that if Zeppelin gets more traction it will become the de >> > facto tool for data science within the Hadoop ecosystem. >> > >> > >> > >> > Those are my thoughts, >> > >> > Marko >> > >> > >> > >> > From: moon soo Lee [mailto:m...@apache.org] >> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:21 AM >> > To: users@zeppelin.incubator.apache.org >> > Cc: Brian G Durkin; Krishnachaitanya C Potluri; James J Boesger >> > Subject: Re: Using Trello to Show Mid to High Level features in Apache >> > Zeppelin >> > >> > >> > >> > Hi Marko Galesic, >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks for interest to Zeppelin. Also really appreciate for asking >> > involvement. >> > >> > >> > >> > About the trello you suggested, I checked and looks like you did nice >> job. >> > >> > >> > >> > In my understanding, beside of JIRA, you'd like to use Trello board to >> > get users(who is not familiar with JIRA) requests and feedbacks. right? >> > >> > >> > >> > Personally, i think the idea make sense. There're definitely people >> > who feels less comfortable of using JIRA. >> > >> > >> > >> > However, instead of maintaining separate issue tracking system for >> > different target user groups, how about contributing to Zeppelin >> > directly to solve the problem. So improvement can be done with Apache >> community. >> > >> > It can be documentation of how to create jira issue, it can be >> > discussion of way of managing and organizing issues, it can be >> anything, we'll figure out. >> > >> > >> > >> > What do you think? >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > moon >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:02 PM Marko Galesic >> > <marko_gale...@progressive.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > >> > >> > I’m wondering if people involved with this project would be willing to >> > maintain a Trello board for user feature requests. I’d be willing to >> > maintain it, however I’d like to know that others in the community >> > would market it to those who would use it (users). I’ll be sending >> > this to my company’s data scientists. The administration of the board >> > should be handled by somebody other than the users, however. >> > >> > >> > >> > I’ve started one here: https://trello.com/b/w7KDN7CC/apache-zeppelin >> > I’ve taken what seemed like mid-to-high level feature requests and put >> > them into “cards”, more on that later. This is a first pass. I’m open >> > to feedback + adding administrators since this is really a high level >> > reflection of what already exists in the Apache Zeppelin JIRA. >> > >> > >> > >> > I’m trying to base it off of what Epic Games is doing with their >> > Trello board for Unreal Engine (UE is a video game engine\content >> > creation platform for games ranging from small independently developed >> > mobile apps to multi-million dollar blockbuster titles that ship on >> Xbox and Playstation): >> > https://trello.com/b/gHooNW9I/ue4-roadmap >> > >> > >> > >> > There are “boards” (e.g. on the one I’ve set up: Interpreters, UI, >> > Compatibility, etc), cards (e.g. Hive under Interpreters), card >> > tagging (Epic Games uses this for indicating when that card would be >> > implemented – specifically, in months), and votes (the board I’ve set >> > up is a public board, so anybody with a Trello account can vote). I’ve >> > also enabled card “aging”. As a card stays inactive, it starts to >> > become transparent. The only card tag right now is “Wishlist/Backlog”. >> > >> > >> > >> > This seems more accessible and user relevant than JIRA, and it also >> > does not include bugs. If there are performance issues that need a >> > ticket, they seem to get labeled as an “improvement” – there are very >> > few of those, though, and I’m assuming Epic Games has their own, >> > internal ticket tracking system that is much more granular. >> > >> > >> > >> > Thank you, >> > >> > Marko Galesic >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Kind regards, >> Alexander. >> > >
