Yes, I agree with most of this (especially forgot about M's special notation which further shows that 4,3 cadences would have been played). However I'm not so sure that professional/more accomplished amateur players wouldn't have used a more comprehensive harmonic language than you seem to suggest - hard to prove of course since in the nature of things their extempore playing is not recorded. However the very existence of F, C and R's extended Alfabeto shows that at least some were aware of the shortcomings of the basic chords.
But odd that none of them shows the common Am7 chord which I gave earlier.......... MH --- On Mon, 21/7/08, Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Alfabeto songs and editions > To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 12:33 PM > Yes, I do think something as common as the ubiqitous 4,3 > cadence would have > been expected: wether they thought merely indicating the > root chord was > sufficient and that players would themselves automatically > play a 4,3 is > moot; presumably for professional players not required, but > for beginners > (the buyers of such books)? > > In Marini's Scherzi e canzonette of 1622 he has in > fact explained 4-3 > cadences and in the music puts a dot beside the letter to > indicate where one > should be played. > > Regarding the use of 'modern' chord names, they are > not, of course, just > used by modern guitar players but more generally employed. > The problem with > Alfabeto is also indicating commonly appearing harmonies > such as Am7 ie > > which are not (I think offhand) covered by such additional > systems as > Foscarini's 'alfabeto dissonante', Calvi's > 'alfabeto falso' > > Foscarini includes some chords of the 7th and chords for > introducing 4-3 > suspensions. Calvi is actually a plagiarized edition of > Corbetta's 1639 > book although most people don't seem to realize that. > Corbetta's alfabeto > falso also includes some 7th chords and 4-3 which he uses > in his alfabeto > pieces. > > or Ricci's > 'lettere tagliate'. > > Ricci's lettere tagliate are something completely > different. They are a > form of dissonance created by leaving one course of a chord > unfretted > creating a sort of appoggiatura. > > However I think the point is that the guitar was not > expected to realize the > bass line at all - only strum the relevant chords... At > least Marini says: > > Note that in some places in this book you will find that > the alfabeto does > not match the bass line. It was the Author’s desire to > accompany the voice > in as many ways as possible so do not concern yourself with > this which is > due to the fact that the guitar lacks many of the correct > chords. > > There was no need to indicate such refinements as chords > of the 7th > because guitarists wouldn't have played them. > > Monica > > > -- On Mon, 21/7/08, Mjos & Larson > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3 > > From: Mjos & Larson > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Alfabeto songs and editions > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu, "David van > Ooijen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 7:18 AM > > Martyn, > > > > Do you think a 4-3 cadence is always > "required" > > in this repertoire? > > Or do you think a plain major chord might, possibly, > be an > > element of > > the style? O would a plain chord only have been played > by > > low-level > > amateurs? > > > > I actually am happy enough to play from Italian or > Spanish > > sources > > translated in to French tab (my Piccinini arrangements > are > > in French > > tab), but I would wish for enough information in that > > "translation" > > to have a good understanding of the original. > > > > I think the issue also relates to the purpose of the > > edition. Is the > > goal to "recreate" a corrected/clearer > version of > > the original source > > -- it might be. I am trying to find a form that will > be > > useful and > > practical for me (and maybe for others) for future > > programs. So I'm > > experimenting a bit. > > > > -- R > > > > On Jul 20, 2008, at 3:04 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > > > > > > > > Like many others I use modern chord names when > playing > > guitar > > > continuo: this enables the underlying harmony > (shades > > of Rameau) to > > > be played without obvious errors. However I play > solo > > music from > > > original tablatures and the many 'mixed' > > Italian tablatures enables > > > Alfabeto to be learnt. In practice I never > confuse the > > two systems. > > > > > > However, I do so agree that generally players > ought to > > be > > > encouraged to play from the original notations > and, > > like you, > > > deprecate the modern practice of transcribing > into a > > uniform French > > > tablature. > > > > > > Finally, the problem with some of the early > Alfabeto > > songs is that > > > the symbols are not always quite accurate: a good > > example is the A > > > 4,3 (modern chord notation)cadence which is only > shown > > as I > > > (Alfabeto) in the original. > > > > > > MH > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Not happy with your email address?. > Get the one you really want - millions of new email > addresses available now > at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. 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