Michael Craddock has made a very nice recording of some of these pieces .
It is Cantus Records, C 9632.
However he does try to play the diminue versions at the same speed as the
unadorned versions - and doesn't always bring it off cleanly.
I would think that a slightly slower tempo might be acceptable - even for
the plain versions.
Maybe I am getting old but breakneck speeds don't always seem to me to work
very well on double strung instruments. Everything seems to merge together
and lack clarity.
I seem to remember reading in one of the books - can't remember where -
that you should adopt a speed which matches your ability...
MOnica
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Walsh" <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
To: "Michael Fink" <michael.f...@notesinc.com>; "Vihuelalist"
<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:56 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: four-course guitar music 'plus diminuees'
Regarding your questions, some commentaries you might want to look at
are:
* Jocelyn Carrie Nelson, "Adrian Le Roy's _Premiere livre de tabulature
de
guiterre_ (1551): Transcription and analysis of the ornamented pavanes,
galliards, and branles," D.M.A. monograph, University of Colorado, 2002.
* Michael Fink," The 'Lost' Guitar Pieces of Adrian Le Roy," _Lute
Society
of America Quarterly_, XLIII/3 (Sep 2008): 42-43.
* The additional "plus diminuee" pieces discussed in the latter are
published in _Pierre Phalese, Selectissima Elegantissimaque Guiterna
Carmina
1570_, Introduction by Michael Fink. Lubeck: Tree Edition, (c)2007.
Many thanks for these references.
IMHO, Renaissance dances in printed or ms. collections are somewhat
bifocal.
They may or may not be intended for the dance. The distinctive rhythms
and
periodicity of a dance may be present, but those features may be merely
structural, and the piece may have been written mainly for listening and
playing enjoyment.
Thus tempos in Le Roy's "plus diminuee" versions could probably be
modified
from the unadorned versions with good effect.
I'm always intrigued by a puzzle and either players then (and this
repertoire is usually said to be aimed at amateurs) were capable of
playing at staggering speeds - or, as I think you are suggesting - they
played these pieces more slowly. But I think there are problems with both.
I'm just an amateur player but playing first the plain version of a little
dance at something like a dance-like tempo - then keeping that tempo and
trying to play the fancy version at the same tempo is quite beyond
possibility for me. But if loads of people are playing these pieces (the
'plus diminuees' versions ) I'd love to hear them.and be rightly
chastened. Even playing flat out, playing far faster than I can clearly
articulate, doesn't get me close to the speed I'd need to be if I'm
playing in the dance-like tempo of the plain version. At these sort of
speeds the music is miles beyond any amateur plucked music I've ever
encountered.
But playing them more slowly seems implausible too. They fancy versions
are only fancy in having these very fast (rather formulaic) runs - they
aren't wholly re-cast as arty things and there are bars and bars without
fast divisions which would just sound rather silly at a slower speed.
Stuart
(BTW, Le Roy seems to be the
only composer to write plain & fancy versions of the same piece for the
guitar -- and for the lute.)
At this point, I yield to Jocelyn with her extensive experience in this
repertoire and deep knowledge of the Renaissance guitar. You may wish to
write to her.
Best wishes,
Michael Fink
_________________________
mich...@lgv-pub.com
_________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Walsh [mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 24,
2009 3:54 PM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] four-course guitar music 'plus diminuees'
I've got a four-course guitar for a short while. I used to try and play
this four-course (mid 16th century) repertoire, years ago, on a baritone
uke and a home-made concoction - without much success or pleasure. Anyway
this current instrument is a good one...but I must admit I can't make it
sound very well at all.
But I'm interested to know what people think about the speeds of the
'plus diminuee' pieces, the versions of pieces with divisions. Leroy's
Third Book has many little dances with second versions of the pieces with
divisions. Perhaps it's important that the 'plus diminuees' versions are
free-standing. Pieces with ornamented repeats might have been expected.
But no, there is a straightforward, 'simple' version and then the 'plus
diminuees' version.
Some commentators (like Harvey Turnbull) have been quite dismissive of
all of this 'amateur' music - which, I suppose, it must have been. But
looking at the 'plus diminuees' pieces again, and trying to play them I
wonder whoever could possibly have played them. As an example, the
straightforward version of Almande tournee (Allemande Loreyne) f.16 feels
like a two to a bar tune with running eighth notes. It's a lively little
dance. But, at that speed for the straightforward version, the 'plus
diminuees' version is ridiculously, absurdly - freakishly - fast. But if
the 'plus diminuess' version is slowed down to a human level, the dance
is now unbearably, turgidly slow.
Th Spanish guitar books don't have an equivalent of these 'plus
diminuees' pieces. The Spanish guitar pieces can be challenging and
difficult - but not beyond practice and hard work. I don't think the
Gorlier books have anything like the 'plus diminuees' pieces either.
Paul Odette (fastest on earth?) has recorded some of this stuff and it
sounds a bit weird...why turn a dance tune into a sort of machine gun
burst? (And almost all of the divisions are within the first five frets
of a four-course instrument: all squashed into to a tiny space).
So I wonder what these 'plus diminuees' pieces are all about. Is anyone
happily playing them?
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.278 / Virus Database:
270.11.28/2022 - Release Date: 03/25/09 07:16:00
