Dear Monica,
You write: 'I think you are mistaken. Most of these song books are not intended for amateurs (although amateurs may have performed cf. Schubert lieder). This is clear from the voice part. They are intended for accomplished singers - of whom there would have been a large number in Italy where every church and cathedral had a body of professional singers.' I beg to differ - what is your evidence for such a statement? Surely the very act of publishing printed books is to sell to the wider market than the few guitar 'professionals' versed in composition so as to make money. Similarly manuscript collections were frequently for transmission of dances/songs to pupils. Incidentally amatuers in this contemporary sense does not equate to unaccomplished singers - the affluent classes had the time as well as money to devote time to the 'arts' and deveoped some proficiency. In any event these songs are not Rossini coloratura arias . Martyn --- On Fri, 19/11/10, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence To: "Lex Eisenhardt" <eisenha...@planet.nl> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 12:41 Sanseverino's six (dance-) songs are accompaniments to well-known > melodies. Obviously you haven't seen them. (They are not the same songs included in the 1620 edition). They are songs which were currently in the repertoire at the time - Rontani's Caldi sospiri to name but one. This had apppeared with basso continuo in a song book printed in Florence in 1614 without alfabeto and was reprinted in Rome with alfabeto in 1623. > The songs of Marini, Berti and so many others were new compositions, > provided with the harmony of a basso continuo. The alfabeto > could well have been inscribed by the composer himself, as we assume of > Biagio Marini, for example. I am sure that it was and if you read what Marini has said and study how he has added the alfabeto to the songs you can see that he had in mind something quite different from what you seem to think > [could we please have > this discussion in Dutch ?:~) ] Double Dutch perhaps. What you are saying sounds like pedantry to me. what was going on in >> Surely they are one and the same? > > No they are not. I think you are mistaken. Most of these song books are not intended for amateurs (although amateurs may have performed cf. Schubert lieder). This is clear from the voice part. They are intended for accomplished singers - of whom there would have been a large number in Italy where every church and cathedral had a body of professional singers. > We cannot tell how someone like Foscarini, of whom we have no songs, > would have shaped his accompaniment to a song by Marini or Landi. But we > are > so fortunate to have his BC instructions, even if they are late. That is the point isn't it. They are included in the latest (surviving) edition of his work - 1640 - not the earlier one. But sources from the 1620s tell a different story. We don't even know if he would ever have accompanied these songs - which according to you were going out of style by 1640. But some of the pieces in his 1629 book and that of Colonna are clearly intended to be accompaniments to songs in fashion at the time. Monica > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html