2017-04-23 0:02 GMT+09:00 Manuel Ortega <[email protected]>: > On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Kazunobu Kuriyama < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> 2017-04-21 1:48 GMT+09:00 Bram Moolenaar <[email protected]>: >> >>> >>> >>> The terms "with darwin" and "without darwin" are very confusing. There >>> is no help for "darwin". Cleaning that up sounds like a good idea. >>> >> >> OK, I'll add some explanation on the darwin feature to os_mac.txt, and >> make links between that and the terms. >> > > I seem to remember, from a while back, that "disabling darwin" has a > bigger effect than just disconnecting Vim from the macOS clipboard. > Something about it messed up (believe it or not) the precomposition (or > lack thereof) of unicode, particularly when one did something like ":r > !some-cmd". I think there was a report about this on the vim_mac list a > long time ago. >
Wasn't that issue fixed later? I don't see any glitch with --disable-darwin build for these 6 years... > > Still, prior to making the suggested list, I think we should first remove >> the code relevant to Mac OS 9 and the Carbon GUI. Please allow me to >> reiterate them: >> >> version7.txt:108 (2005-12-06, 241a8aaa48): >> "The support for Mac OS 9 has been removed." >> >> >> src/configure.ac:2231 (2010-07-14, 164fca39bd): >> "AC_MSG_RESULT(auto - Carbon GUI is outdated - disable GUI support)" >> >> They are backlogs overdue. >> >> >>> How about Carbon? On my Mac air it appears not to work, Quickdraw.h is >>> missing. >>> >> >> They say that Carbon wasn't updated to support 64-bit. So current Carbon >> Vim is the one only for someone who wants to run a 32-bit Vim 8.0 in a >> 64-bit environment for one reason or another. I'm definitely the last >> person of this kind. >> >> And, as you noticed, our build system hasn't maintained in a way to >> support it. >> > > I think Carbon Vim was destroyed in three phases: First, the Carbon code >> was alienated from the codebase when the darwin feature is merged there on >> 2010-07-14. Next, OS X 10.8 has deprecated most Carbon APIs on 2012-07-24. >> Lastly, when OS 10.9 brought us a breakage regarding Cabon.h and >> AvailabilitMacros.h, we made an effort to maintain the Cocoa code but no >> effort for the Carbon code at any rate. >> >> IIRC, we haven't received any report, patch or request on the breakage >> relevant to the Carbon code so far. >> >> in conclusion, unless someone is willing to work for that, we are no >> longer able to maintain it. Personally, I think it's nearly impossible to >> restore it. >> > > I think you are underestimating the Carbon build. The Carbon GUI is only > broken for recent versions of macOS, where there is independently no reason > to ask for it because there is MacVim which is infinitely superior. There > is no "work needed to restore it", because there is no need to restore it, > because it builds fine on 10.8 and under (and will even run on macOS > Sierra): https://sourceforge.net/projects/macosxvim/files. As far as I > know it works just fine even on macOS 10.4 and 10.5. > Alas, the reason why I mentioned the exact versions and dates was to avoid this sort of misunderstanding... > Maybe the reason there haven't been bug reports is because the people that > have a reason to use it are using it on a machine for which it still > works. Why would anyone be using a machine that's 32 bit and with an older > macOS? Because the machines still work fine for doing work in a text > editor, even though they're not good for internet videos or photoshop. > > On top of this, people on 10.7 and less have been ruthlessly dumped by > MacVim. (You can bet it won't be long before the trigger-happy MacVim devs > dump 10.8 and 10.9). This means those people would have no Vim GUI > whatsoever if you dump the Carbon GUI. (The X11 GUI on the Mac is worse > than nothing, which is not Vim's fault, but is because of the X11 > emulators.) > Believe or not, the GTK+ 3 GUI was fully developed on XQuartz running on OS X. Actually, almost all of recent implementation changes in the X11-based GUIs (Athena, Motif, GTK+ 2 and 3) were all developed and tested, and the resulting patches were sent to vim_dev. XQuartz is not an emulator, but a full-fledge implementation of X11 for OS X. I do wish someone on Linux comes up and works for the GUIs, taking over the role I'm now playing for Vim. Till then, I want to continue working with Mac. For that purpose, I want to make my work more efficient and productive. That's my primary reason why I'm now trying to improve the code of Vim for Mac, though I have little complaint about the performance and functionality of the current Vim. Recently, I often com across a lot of pictures of Vim running on Mac and Mac-related Vim questions at user forums on the Internet. Though I don't have any of statistics, it seems that vimmers on Mac have been rapidly increasing in number. Maybe, code and documents that are well taken care of can be helpful to gain their confidence in Vim. That's my secondary reason, though I regard it as a by-product of my primary motivation. TBH, I rather feel like working for them and myself than people invisible from me, though I don't deny the existence of them at all. Kazunobu > It may be that when all is said and done Carbon should still be dumped > anyway, but it is not true that (a) nobody uses it, or (b) that nobody > *could* use it, or (c) that keeping it would require a lot of work. > > -Manny > > -- > -- > You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. > Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. > For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "vim_dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to. For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "vim_dev" group. 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