Re: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

Christopher Chaltain Fri, 17 Jun 2016 05:32:57 -0700

Well, I don't regularly follow market share numbers, but from what I'veread lately, all of the top manufacturers, including Samsung and Apple,are losing out to up and coming Chinese hand set makers. Market sharenumbers are also complex and require some deeper investigation. Siegharddid a good job of pointing this out when talking about how many pricepoints you have with Android that you don't have with Apple.

I agree fragmentation in the Android ecosystem is an issue, but I don'tsee how this applies to this discussion. Whether there's fragmentationor not doesn't change the market share numbers.

The fact that 60% of Android handsets has malware on it is a misleadingstatistic. Also, this is not because Android contains some open sourcesoftware. My Linux system is much more secure than a Windows PC or evena Mac.

It is true that some handsets aren't as accessible as others due tomodifications made by the handset maker, but it's easy to avoid thiswith a little research, all handsets have gotten more accessible overtime and Jonathan's article does a good job of discussing this.

Bloatware is a misleading term. The Samsung phones have a lot ofaccessibility improvements in them that haven't made it to Android orTalk Back yet, so it isn't true that Google devices are always the mostaccessible. In fact, Samsung has added some features to their version ofTalk Back to make it easier for iPhone users to make the transition toAndroid.

I have a Nexus 7, and I can't recall a single application that came onthe phone that was not accessible. This is also true for other handsetmakers, such as Samsung. I have switched to a few new defaultapplications, such as a launcher, email program and web browser, butthis was due to choice and not because the original applications werenot accessible. I didn't have any trouble picking up and using my Nexus7, and I am just a casual user. I don't think I've had to be a geek touse Android.

Remember, this discussion started when someone said Apple had no realcompetition. I and others pointed out that this isn't true. You may notlike Android, and you may not think that the market share numbers forAndroid, demonstrate real competition to Apple, but I would disagreewith this, and I'm pretty sure Apple is paying attention to what's goingon with Google, Android, Samsung and other handset manufacturers andconsider this real competition.

I don't think I did anything to turn this into an Android versus iPhonedebate, and I'm sorry if I did. I do think it's important thatinformation be accurate and that blind users know what their optionsare. I'm not rooting for Apple or Android or anything other than moreaccessible options for the blind. I cheer for increased accessibility inAndroid just as much as I do for improvements in Apple. I think it'sunfortunate whenever an accessible product disappears from the market,even if it was a product I chose not to use.


On 16/06/16 22:07, John Panarese wrote:

    Actually, if you have been keeping up with the markets, Samsung has
been losing a lot of market share to both Apple, but from other Android
handset makers. In fact, in their home country, they are no longer the
largest handset company any longer. This doesn’t take into consideration
the fact that Android overall continues to fracture in its use across
devices, as the fact that less than 2 percent of all Android users are
even running the latest software and over seventy percent of Android
users don’t even know what is the latest software or if their device can
even run it. In point of fact, handset makers really don’t want their
user base to be able to upgrade their devices for lengthy periods of
time which is why Android users often find their devices outdated within
three months of [purchase it as just happened to my cousin.

      Add to that the additional reality that sixty percent of Android
users have some form of malware on their phones or tablets is somewhat
disturbing to me. It’s the risks you take with open source software,
like it or not. It’s why I use Android for only curiosity and my geeky
interest than utilize it for any important work.

    Also, from personal experience, to say Android is accessible out of
the box is misleading. You have to take into consideration as to what
device you are using. Out of the box, this can make a major difference
in your Android experience, and in some cases, what other software you
have to download. Accessibility works far better on Google devices
because there isn’t the other bloatware that other handset manufacturers
include. It’s why I went with a Google device and not another maker’s
product. Also, web accessibility in Android is very sporadic. You do, in
fact, have to be much more of a geek or a tinkerer to really use both
Android and accessibility effectively. I have two particular friends who
have really taught me a lot about Android over the last year.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com <mailto:j...@macfortheblind.com>
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:40 PM, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com
<mailto:chalt...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Well, I don't think analogies to Toyota and Mercedes are relevant.
Also, comparing Apple to Google doesn't tell the whole story, since
Apple is a hardware manufacturer and Google is an OS provider. I'm
also not sure where statements like Apple wins hands down over Samsung
come from.

Articles like:
* http://bgr.com/2016/05/23/smartphone-market-share-q1-2016/
* http://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/27/iphone-15-percent-market-share/
Talk about how Apple only has 15% of the smart phone market share
worldwide, trailing Samsung.

If you just look at the US then articles like:
*
https://www.comscore.com/Insights/Rankings/comScore-Reports-January-2016-US-Smartphone-Subscriber-Market-Share
Shows that Apple has just over 40% of the market, while Samsung has
just under 30%. The original statement was that Apple had no real
competition. I'd say 43% to 28% is real competition.

On 16/06/16 13:24, Evan Reese wrote:

True enough, but all those people who can't afford an iPhone are people
who aren't using Apple's hardware and not in Apple's ecosystem. That's a
heck of a lot of people. And Apple's hardware revenue is no longer
growing. The market for high end smart phones is saturated in the
developed world. If they want to keep growing, they are going to either
have to make more affordable models, or find some other way to increase
their revenue.
I read recently that Apple is trying very hard, and so far, failing to
increase their currently tiny market share in India; at least in part by
selling refurbished iPhones to make them more affordable. They know they
can't be complacent just because they win hands down against other high
end makers such as Samsung.
Since you mention cars, many of them make various models for various
income levels. Apple does some of that, but I can't believe they don't
want to put their devices in the hands of three quarters of the world's
population who currently can't afford one. If they do want to get those
customers, they will have to make lower end models. Of course, there's
the risk then of losing their high end brand mystique. It's got to be a
tough decision.
Evan

-----Original Message----- From: Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 1:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

That's a bit like saying Toyota has much more market share than
Mercedes. Android may have more market share world wide because there
are a lot of low-end Android phones especially in countries like China,
India, Indonesia and other Asian, south American and African countries
where most people can't afford an iPhone or one of the high-end Android
phones like a Samsung Galaxy. The fact is that three quarters of the
world's population is in these countries and part of a socio-economic
group which could never afford a phone which costs more than $50 or $100
at the most.
However, if you look at how much money Apple makes from iPhones/iOS
compared to how much money Google makes from Android it's a very
different story. Google makes its money from advertising and Apple makes
it from their hardware and services like Apple Music and the iTunes
Store. Apple is a single manufacturer and they have a handful of phone
models, Google licenses Android to dozens of manufacturers and there are
hundreds of models of Android phones. Compare Apple with Samsung and
their high-end phones which are really the competition for the iPhone
and Apple wins hands down.

Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 8:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

Last I heard, which was not very long ago, according to a recent issue
of the Economist, Android has over 80 percent of the smart phone market.
So I would say that Apple is getting serious competition already.
Evan

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 8:07 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

I would claim that Apple is getting real competition from other smart
phone makers. I haven't checked the numbers lately, but Android in
general and Samsung in particular outsell IOS and i Phones. Even if
Apple has let over Samsung or is doing better in particular markets, I
think Apple would be crazy not to consider this serious competition.

Note, I'm not saying Android or Samsung is better than IOS or Apple, but
I just don't think it's true that they aren't real competition for the
iPhone.

On 16/06/16 01:42, Gary Petraccaro wrote:

That will change when Apple starts getting real competition from other
smartphone makers, or the blind start calling/writing the access
people and requesting features such as what you want.  If that doesn't
do it, then Apple just has certain established attitudes toward their
product and feels no reason to change them.  One of those, the failure
of Siri to open shazam or Google seems to me to be based on Apple's
making a competitive product and not wanting it's operating system to
give a leg up to a product not Apple's own.

   ----- Original Message -----
   *From:* Sieghard Weitzel <mailto:siegh...@live.ca>
   *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
   *Sent:* Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:19 PM
   *Subject:* RE: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

   Hi Jonathan,

   Well, isn’t that nice of Apple. They make such a big deal of how
   they are opening up the API’s for all of these iOS features to
   developers but they conveniently forget to mention that really they
   don’t. As much as I like my iphone and what Apple is doing in many
   areas, it is very annoying that they are so backwards in other ways.

   Regards,

   Sieghard

   *From:*viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
   *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Mosen
   *Sent:* Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:34 PM
   *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
   *Subject:* Re: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

   Hi Sieghard, sad to say, Siri won't be opening your Audible book any
   time soon. For iOS 10.0, the Siri API will only work with six kinds
   of application: ride booking, messaging , Photo Search, payments,
   Calling, and Workouts.

   So, Siri won't be able to open a book in Voice Dream, Bard, or any
   other third-party book app. It won't be able to play music for you
   on Spotify or Pandora. It won't be able to play the most recent
   episode of a podcast using third-party podcast apps. I have no idea
   why Apple is so tone deaf to how far it is lagging behind in this
   space, but what they're coming out with is only going to improve the
   situation slightly.

   Jonathan Mosen

   Mosen Consulting

   Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training

http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org> <http://mosen.org>

       On 15/06/2016, at 6:59 AM, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca
<mailto:siegh...@live.ca>
       <mailto:siegh...@live.ca>> wrote:

       Hi Devin,

       Yes, some of it sounds very nice, but as others have pointed
       out, there isn't much that is really groundbreaking.
       Collaboration in documents is something Microsoft has been
       offering for years and it is high time Apple opened up their
       API's to developers especially the one for SIRI. They pointed
       out that SIRI has been around for 5 years now and if you really
       think about it SIRI now is not a lot better than it was 5 years
       ago. Yes, it's a bit faster with dictation and can pull
       information from a few more sources, but why is it still not
       possible to say "Call Kevin from Bigrock Sports" just to give an
       example of one of my contacts where I have at least 3 or 4
       Kevins in my contacts who all work for different companies. I
       can't even create a contact where I just enter a company name in
       the company name field and a single phone number and say, for
       example, "Call Bigrock Sports". I have to also put the company
       name in the last name field to do this. I should be able to say
       "Show me all my contacts who work at Bigrock Sports" or I should
       be able to tell SIRI to "Turn Voiceover Hints On or Off", but
       all of these things SIRI can't do. Another example: I can tell
       SIRI to "Remind me about my dentist appointment on Friday at 3
       PM", but if I say "Remind me about my 3 PM dentist appointment
       on Friday at 2 PM" it will say it will remind me and when I
       check what SIRI created I see it created the reminder for 3 PM
       whereas I want to be reminded at 2 PM that my appointment is at
       3 PM. There is a complicated way to say it so it does what I
       want, but I should be able to say it anyway I like or even in
       two parts like "Remind me about my dentist appointment at 3 PM
       on Friday" and when SIRI says it will I should be able to bring
       it up again and say "Start reminding me once an hour starting at
       11 AM and it should understand that I want a reminder at 11 AM,
       Noon, 1 PM and 2 PM and maybe by its own intelligence SIRI
       should remind me again 15 minutes before if it detects my iPhone
       is not moving. This is true artificial intelligence, it already
       exists, the iPhone has the processing power to do it and so do
       Apple's servers.
       I can't say how much I look forward to being finally able to say
       "Play the Audible book I am currently listening to" or, if I
       have not started one but have a bunch downloaded I hope I can
       say "Play Night Ranger in audible" (just one example of a book
       by Alex Berentson I just finished).
       Another basic example of something super simple SIRI can't do.
       Try and ask SIRI to "Start the Stop Watch". SIRI will tell you
       "Sorry, I can't help you with the stop watch". Huh, really, it
       can set a timer, an alarm, it can create calendar events and
       reminders but it can't start the stop watch? Why?


       Best regards,
       Sieghard

       -----Original Message-----
       From: viphone@googlegroups.com
<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
       [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
       Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 8:50 AM
       To: viphone@googlegroups.com
<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
       Subject: Re: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

       Sure, but little things add up to big changes. Siri gets
       integrated into predictive text, so she can suggest better
       options there, like I'm at (suggests input of location into the
       text)" and stuff like that. Siri is open to developers, so apps
       can allow Siri to use their functionality from anywhere. Apps
       can do things within iMessage, like allowing sending of money
       right from messages. Mac gets Siri, tabs in every multi-window
       app. People can collaborate with notes. Unlock Mac with Apple
       watch. Just amazing stuff!

       Sent from my iPhone


           On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:43 AM, Kelly Pierce
           <kellyt...@gmail.com <mailto:kellyt...@gmail.com>
<mailto:kellyt...@gmail.com>> wrote:

           If you can't stream it, download my MP3 of the event and
           play it on a
           stand alone device.  Apple announced incremental
           improvements, not
           breakthrough technology.  Even Facebook with its calling
           feature in
           the messages app, a Facetime mimmick, offered something new.
             Some of
           Apple's innovations will need to be experieinced to be
           believed.  The
           photos app will now be able to recognize peple and places.

           Kelly


               On 6/14/16, 'Sandratomkins' via VIPhone
               <viphone@googlegroups.com
<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
               <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
               Hi,

                  I was under the impression that the Apple event was
               yesterday. I
               cannot stream it, no bandwidth! But, if it was
               yesterday, how come
               the silence? Was it so unremarkable? Or do I have the
               wrong week?

               Thanks, Sandy.

               sent from the dark side of the moon

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Re: WWDC event, was it yesterday?

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