I was not clear. There is a major difference between typing on the keyboard and using the keyboard for navigation.
Sighted people overwhelmingly prefer navigating using the touch-screen first, the mouse second, and the keyboard last. This has nothing to do with typing. The fact is, on computers with mouse or touchpad, sighted people will usually move the pointer to where they need to type with the mouse, trackpad, or directly on the display. They then type on the keyboard. They then use the touchpad, mouse, or display to move the pointer to the next field, or ok, or next button, or whatever the next task is. A few fast typists, who were trained more than 18 years ago, will default to pressing tab, arrow keys, and enter, but the majority to vast majority prefer the direct interaction with the onscreen object using the more direct interface of touch-screen, mouse, or touchpad (in that order according to a fair number of studies I have read that took place over the past ten years. I probably misread an earlier post. I thought the person asked about using navigation with the keyboard when VO is turned off. My understanding is VO must be on for keyboard navigation to function. The fact is, the majority of sighted users prefer it that way. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 04/04/2013, at 14:54, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 04/03/2013 08:16 PM, David Chittenden wrote: >> My comments are mainly targeted, in this case, at the thought that sighted >> users of iPhone would rather use keyboard navigation. Save for a very few >> outlyers, this assertion is constantly proven incorrect. > > I guess I didn't see that in this thread until you or someone else brought it > up. It just seemed like a question from someone who was already using a > bluetooth keyboard and wanted to do some navigation without using the touch > screen. I'm not saying people don't want to use the touch screen, but I think > people who want to use a keyboard make up more than just a very few outliers. > I doubt there would be as many makers of bluetooth keyboards as there are if > the market was as small as you imply. > >> As for programming and AV, object-oriented programming is primarily mouse >> oriented. Same with high-end AV editing and production. > > I'm not sure why you say that object oriented programming is mostly mouse > oriented. Sure there are some IDE's that use the mouse to establish > relationships between objects, but even with these IDE's there's still quite > a bit of typing involved, such as when you're writing a new object or method. > There are also quite a few programmers doing object oriented programming > without such IDE's as well as quite a bit of programming out there being done > that isn't object oriented. I'm also not sure how being mouse oriented > changes the discussion. I still see video editors using a > monitor/keyboard/mouse combination on their desktop system before doing this > on a touch screen only device. > > Again, I'm not saying touch screens aren't becoming more and more popular and > don't make a lot of sense for a lot of tasks. I'm just saying there's still a > place, which I think is larger than you imply, for keyboards and input/output > technologies other than the touch screen. Because of this, I don't think > there's anything wrong with someone asking for a feature related to keyboard > access. > >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 04/04/2013, at 12:10, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Well, I can't disagree with anything you're saying, and I think you're >>> right when it comes to information consumption and inputs of small amounts >>> of information, but I don't see information and content generation going >>> the way of the tuch screen any time soon. I can't point to specific >>> studies, but I assume something must be driving companies like Microsoft, >>> Canonical, Motorola and Asus to develop converged devices which give you >>> the tablet based touch screen interface when you're mobile and a >>> monitor/keyboard centric interface when you're at your desk. Maybe this is >>> just a set of transitional products, but I just don't ever see programmers, >>> writers, video editors, publishers and so on doing their work exclusively >>> on a touch screen. Like I said, I have read the thread below, and I'm not >>> sure I follow all of it, but I don't see where the person who bought the >>> bluetooth keyboard is just using it when they're mobile. >>> >>> On 04/03/2013 05:48 PM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>> Ok, step outside what you know. The following has been studied numerous >>>> times in many fields across the consumer information sectors. It includes >>>> everything from information kiosks and cash machines in very diverse >>>> venues to mobile information communication technology of various types and >>>> brands. >>>> >>>> When the interface is end-user (consumer) focused, people overwhelmingly >>>> prefer touch-screen direct access and manipulation of visual icons. They >>>> overwhelmingly report such interfaces are much more natural. Also, errors >>>> decrease significantly and productivity increases significantly when >>>> touch-screen interfaces are used. These are facts, not speculation or >>>> wishful thinking. New academic studies come out very regularly from >>>> different sectors which show very similar results. >>>> >>>> Now that acceptance and adoption of touch-screen technology has achieved >>>> critical mass, touch-screen control interfaces are becoming (and in many >>>> sectors have become) less expensive than traditional control interfaces >>>> using physical controls such as buttons, switches, knobs, and sliders. >>>> >>>> What this means is, the haptics rich environment of physical controls that >>>> we blind people prefer is continuing to disappear, and will continue >>>> disappearing. As the demand for such control interfaces reduces, costs for >>>> said interfaces will rise. This is how the market works. >>>> >>>> A sighted friend who always use to carry a bluetooth keyboard with him now >>>> does all his typing on his iPhone's onscreen keyboard when he is out. As >>>> he told me, once he got use to it, he no longer needs to carry, or worry >>>> about, the Bluetooth keyboard. >>>> >>>> We all know exceptions, but in general, the overwhelming majority of >>>> people studied, from many different groups and countries, prefer the >>>> direct influence they receive when utilising touch-screen interfaces. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 04/04/2013, at 11:16, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, I'm not sure I'm following the thread below, but there's nothing >>>>> wrong in requesting a feature. We can't always just accept what's out >>>>> there or things will never change and get better. >>>>> >>>>> I can also see a sighted user using a bluetooth keyboard and not wanting >>>>> to remove their hands from the keyboard to interact with the touch >>>>> screen, so if I understand the point in this thread, it doesn't seem so >>>>> unreasonable to me. >>>>> >>>>> On 04/03/2013 05:09 PM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>>>> Well, you can spend thousands of dollars and get a specialised note >>>>>> taker PDA for the blind, you can spend even more thousands of dollars to >>>>>> develop one yourself, or you can adjust to what is available. >>>>>> >>>>>> As I told my daughter whilst she was growing up, "You can want all you >>>>>> want." :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 04/04/2013, at 10:32, "KK2006" <kking2...@sbcglobal.net >>>>>> <mailto:kking2...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Understandable. I'm not sighted though and I want something >>>>>>> different, lol. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> *From:* David Chittenden <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 3:56 PM >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Logitech Blue Tooth Tablet Keyboard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When VO is not turned on, the keyboard is only used for entering >>>>>>> text into edit fields. Just as with the mouse, sighted people >>>>>>> overwhelmingly prefer directly interacting with visual icons and >>>>>>> images on the touch-screen over working through a less direct >>>>>>> keyboard interface. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com <mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 04/04/2013, at 5:20, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com >>>>>>> <mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I could be long, but I don't think Kayla is a voiceover user. But >>>>>>>> there has to be keyboard commands as this keyboard is sold to the >>>>>>>> general public. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 3, 2013, at 10:44 AM, "Alan Paganelli" >>>>>>>> <alanandsuza...@earthlink.net >>>>>>>> <mailto:alanandsuza...@earthlink.net>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here are the ones I've been saving. >>>>>>>>> iOS Keyboard shortcut commands >>>>>>>>> VoiceOver VO keys = Control plus Option >>>>>>>>> General navigation >>>>>>>>> Keys Action >>>>>>>>> VO plus left or right Select previous or next item >>>>>>>>> VO plus up or down Performs or move to the selected rotor option >>>>>>>>> VO plus Space Activate the selected item. (open app, press >>>>>>>>> button) >>>>>>>>> VO plus H Go to home screen >>>>>>>>> VO plus H 2 times Open/close multitask pane >>>>>>>>> Escape Go back, cancel, close pop-up >>>>>>>>> Cmd plus Tab Switch to next app or hold Shift for previous >>>>>>>>> VO plus A Read all from first object in selected area >>>>>>>>> VO plus B Read all from selected item >>>>>>>>> VO plus M Move to status bar >>>>>>>>> VO plus I Open Item Chooser for current area >>>>>>>>> VO plus F Search and go to match with Enter >>>>>>>>> VO plus G Next search match, hold Shift for previous >>>>>>>>> Handling VoiceOver >>>>>>>>> Keys Action >>>>>>>>> Control Pause/resume speech >>>>>>>>> VO plus S Toggle speech off/on >>>>>>>>> VO plus Shift plus S Toggle Screen Curtain on/off >>>>>>>>> VO plus Cmd plus up or down Adjust the selected speech rotor >>>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>>> VO plus Cmd plus left or right Change the speech rotor setting >>>>>>>>> VO plus / (slash) Add label to selected item >>>>>>>>> VO plus K Start VoiceOver training, Escape to exit >>>>>>>>> Quick Nav Commands >>>>>>>>> Turn on "Quick Nav" to use these commands by pressing left plus >>>>>>>>> right keys at the same time >>>>>>>>> Keys Action >>>>>>>>> up plus down Activate the selected item. (open app, press button) >>>>>>>>> left or right Selects the previous or next item >>>>>>>>> up or down Performs or move to the selected rotor option >>>>>>>>> up plus left or right Change to next or previous rotor setting >>>>>>>>> Option plus left or right Move to next or previous horizontal >>>>>>>>> screen/page >>>>>>>>> Option plus up or down Move/scroll up or down the screen/page >>>>>>>>> Control plus up or down Select the first or last item in the area >>>>>>>>> Control plus left or right Go to next or previous container/area >>>>>>>>> Safari Web Shortcuts >>>>>>>>> Hold Shift for previous >>>>>>>>> Keys Action >>>>>>>>> H Next heading >>>>>>>>> 1 to 6 Next respective heading level 1–6 >>>>>>>>> L Next link >>>>>>>>> S Next text element >>>>>>>>> W Next landmark >>>>>>>>> R Next text field >>>>>>>>> X Next list >>>>>>>>> T Next table >>>>>>>>> M Next element of same type >>>>>>>>> I Next image >>>>>>>>> B Next button >>>>>>>>> C Next form element >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Other keyboard commands with Quicknav off >>>>>>>>> Esther Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:03:26 -0700 >>>>>>>>> (from: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg26148.html >>>>>>>>> Apple Wireless Keyboard, also works on the AmazonBasics KT-1081 >>>>>>>>> eject - toggle showing / hiding virtual keyboard (this key is at >>>>>>>>> top right) >>>>>>>>> tab - move to next text field (e.g. in mail) >>>>>>>>> shift tab - move to previous text field >>>>>>>>> command z - undo >>>>>>>>> shift command z - redo >>>>>>>>> command x - cut >>>>>>>>> command c - copy >>>>>>>>> command v - paste >>>>>>>>> command a - select all >>>>>>>>> control - stops and restarts VoiceOver speaking (e.g., in the >>>>>>>>> middle of a two finger flick up or down to read all) command >>>>>>>>> space - change to next language keyboard (when you have more >>>>>>>>> than one selected) >>>>>>>>> shift command space - change to previous language keyboard >>>>>>>>> General movement and selection commands with command, option, >>>>>>>>> and arrow key combinations. (For these sequences, holding down >>>>>>>>> the shift key will select as well as move your cursor. On a PC >>>>>>>>> keyboard, the control key can be substituted for some, but not >>>>>>>>> all instances of the command key. On some keyboards, the Windows >>>>>>>>> key may replace the function of the command key.) >>>>>>>>> left / right arrows - move left or right by character >>>>>>>>> shift left / right arrows - select left or right by character >>>>>>>>> option left / right arrows - move left or right by word >>>>>>>>> shift option left / right arrows - select left or right by word >>>>>>>>> command left / right arrows - move to beginning or end of line >>>>>>>>> shift command left / right arrows - select to beginning or end >>>>>>>>> of line >>>>>>>>> up / down arrows - move up or down by line >>>>>>>>> shift up / down arrows - select up or down by line >>>>>>>>> command up arrow - move to start of document (page up on PC >>>>>>>>> keyboard) >>>>>>>>> shift command up arrow - select to start of document >>>>>>>>> command down arrow - move to end of document (page down on PC >>>>>>>>> keyboard) >>>>>>>>> shift command down arrow - select to end of document >>>>>>>>> delete - delete backward by character >>>>>>>>> option delete - delete backward by word >>>>>>>>> (forward delete sequences with the Fn key do not work) >>>>>>>>> some emacs-like control key sequences work: >>>>>>>>> control a - move to beginning of line >>>>>>>>> control e - move to end of line >>>>>>>>> control b - move back a character >>>>>>>>> control f - move forward a character >>>>>>>>> control h - backwards delete a character >>>>>>>>> control k - delete to end of line >>>>>>>>> control m - insert line feed (blank line) >>>>>>>>> Selections are slightly tricky, because they are based on your >>>>>>>>> current insertion point, so if you select a few words forward by >>>>>>>>> holding down the shift key and tapping the option key, then >>>>>>>>> press command up arrow to move to the start of the document >>>>>>>>> without releasing the shift key, you will end up reversing the >>>>>>>>> selection of the words you started with, and selecting all of >>>>>>>>> your document from your starting point to the beginning of the >>>>>>>>> document. Similarly, when you arrow down from the middle of a >>>>>>>>> line and hold down the shift key, you select all characters from >>>>>>>>> where you started to where you move to in the middle of the next >>>>>>>>> line. On a Mac you can check your selections while you work, but >>>>>>>>> here you can't. For more background details on how these >>>>>>>>> commands work for selection, see my archived post on "Moving and >>>>>>>>> Selecting in Cocoa Apps: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg02038.html >>>>>>>>> Media Controls >>>>>>>>> F3 - Previous Track >>>>>>>>> F4 - Play/pause >>>>>>>>> F5 - Next track >>>>>>>>> F6 - Mute/unmute >>>>>>>>> F7 - Decrease Volume >>>>>>>>> F8 - Increase volume >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> *From:* KK2006 <mailto:kking2...@sbcglobal.net> >>>>>>>>> *To:* viphone list <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:37 PM >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Logitech Blue Tooth Tablet Keyboard >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I just bought the Logitech Tablet Blue Tooth Keyboard from >>>>>>>>> Best Buy this evening. It has a great feel. It was >>>>>>>>> originally designed for the ipad but seems to work with the >>>>>>>>> iPhone 4S just fine. >>>>>>>>> Having said that, I don't know where to even begin accessing >>>>>>>>> the homescreen button and cannot seem to click on any >>>>>>>>> icons. There is a fifteen day money back garentee, if it >>>>>>>>> doesn't work, I can always send it back... >>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you may be able to provide! >>>>>>>>> Kindly, >>>>>>>>> Kayla K >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>> it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>> Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 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Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>>> Google Group. >>>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Christopher (CJ) >>>>> chaltain at Gmail >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Christopher (CJ) >>> chaltain at Gmail >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the 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