Hi Kelly,
I had the problem with the two-finger tap to start dictation. It was simply
that my blue tooth keyboard was on and consequently the virtual keyboard was
not showing so there was no dictation button. Evidently, if the dictation
button is not showing on the screen, the 2-finger tap starts the music
rather than dictation. Once I got that, I never had a problem since. I
have to admit that, once, I was wondering what I was doing wrong and
realized I had not double-tapped with one finger first to activate the text
box. That is the solution to that problem but, there is also the fact
that the screen is more sensitive in IOS 7. They did reduce the sensitivity
in 7.0.03 but it is still a more sensitive screen than it was in IOS 6. In
such case, we have to be more accurate with gestures. It does require some
practice. After all, Apple can't feed us everything with a spoon. They are
doing their big share but we have to do the rest.
Ron & Danvers
-----Original Message-----
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Kellie and my lab pack
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:46 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Neither my husband or myself had had any challenges in ending a phone call.
For us, the hang up gesture works the same as always. The same goes for
double tapping to enter into dictation. You will want to make sure that you
are in the edit field so that editing is enabled. If not, maybe that is why
some people are getting music to play instead of dictation? Not sure but
trying to think of reasons why some would be encountering this difficulty.
Kellie, Guide Loki and retired July
-----Original Message-----
From: Ricardo Walker
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:48 AM
To: viphone
Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi,
I'm not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call
with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better
in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years
have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user
error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some
unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start
dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no
way this can be user error. lol.
JMO.
Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info
On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread
> were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger
> double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends
> phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and
> exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is
> solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully
> proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific
> practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect,
our gestures.
>
> It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the
> gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely
> and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly
> learned the gestures.
>
> Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter
> how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it
> Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c?
> Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing!
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua <shuang.an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible
>> consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report.
>> However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking,
>> you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user
>> errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or
>> later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease
>> accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware.
>> I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the
>> new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things
>> will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone.
>> The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get
>> instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks
>> do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that.
>> You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and
>> friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But
>> now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time.
>> Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the
>> capability of saving phone numbers and contact details.
>>
>> Joanne Chua
>> The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion.
>> Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate
>> Send from my iPad
>>
>>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be
>>> careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a
>>> charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides
it.
>>> Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we
>>> should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards
>>> accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way.
>>> For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows
>>> Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows
>>> Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible
scrap.
>>>
>>> It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7.
>>> People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple.
>>> There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature
>>> and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I
>>> don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep
>>> people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with
>>> IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but
>>> I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, and I think we
>>> should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled and
>>> whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues
>>> they're having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is,
>>> it could still be better and it could definitely get worse if Apple
>>> feels it has to redirect resources away from accessibility and towards
other critical projects.
>>>
>>>> On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote:
>>>> John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says
>>>> in my Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And
>>>> it's true, because look at this thread. We should be lucky that
>>>> Apple is giving us a pretty good screen reader. I'm just tired of
>>>> reading threads about people bitching and complaining about Apple
>>>> not living up to their standards. Even on the Mac list we have
>>>> people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make Voiceover
>>>> live up to their standards. I'm tired of this. I think if I find
>>>> another post about this thread, I'm gonna hit the delete button
>>>> because that is my friend of course. I'll just end off by saying if
>>>> you don't like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to
>>>> Windows and Android. Now that my rant's over, Regina, I have an iPhone
4S and I'm not experiencing any wifi issues.
>>>>
>>>> Shawn
>>>> Sent From My White Mac Book
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou
>>>>> <jdiakoge2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that Sieghard
>>>>> put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining
>>>>> about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so
>>>>> unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android
>>>>> phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this
>>>>> technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with
all technology products.
>>>>> At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new
>>>>> version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of
>>>>> the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us
>>>>> upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us
>>>>> the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought
>>>>> possible just a few short years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/10/13, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time
>>>>>> tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair,
>>>>>> many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult
>>>>>> on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web
>>>>>> technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move
>>>>>> the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form
>>>>>> using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the
>>>>>> visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple
>>>>>> tap.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried.
>>>>>> Physically
>>>>>> find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on
>>>>>> the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit
>>>>>> box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen
>>>>>> refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit
>>>>>> field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p
>>>>>> letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit
>>>>>> field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same
>>>>>> procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue,
>>>>>> submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web
>>>>>> technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also
>>>>>> complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen
>>>>>> readers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my
>>>>>> iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists
>>>>>> have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest
>>>>>> Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This
>>>>>> is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing
>>>>>> else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to
>>>>>> the old Nokia with Talks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is my summary of this entire thread:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a
>>>>>>> fourth:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a
>>>>>>> phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to
>>>>>>> contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy.
>>>>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible
>>>>>>> Apple is in general because they make such expensive and
>>>>>>> terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to
>>>>>>> upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible
>>>>>>> and where Pablo's "rights" are violated in a number of ways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a
>>>>>>> very general way that Apple should give people the option to say
>>>>>>> if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At
>>>>>>> first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and
>>>>>>> I agree there should be such an option.
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody
>>>>>>> to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it
>>>>>>> takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it
>>>>>>> and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically
>>>>>>> installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice
>>>>>>> agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not
>>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the
>>>>>>> automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain
>>>>>>> in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely
>>>>>>> their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody
>>>>>>> has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so
>>>>>>> they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there
>>>>>>> even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for
>>>>>>> getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, as to the 4 items above:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger
>>>>>>> double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I
>>>>>>> think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as
>>>>>>> well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS
>>>>>>> 7
>>>>>>> was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about
>>>>>>> or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up.
>>>>>>> There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works
>>>>>>> 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really
>>>>>>> not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to
>>>>>>> double tap it.
>>>>>>> As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a
>>>>>>> call was hung up or is still connected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to
>>>>>>> dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and
>>>>>>> judging by what others wrote also for them.
>>>>>>> A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to
>>>>>>> call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call,
>>>>>>> add to contacts etc.
>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>> really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who
>>>>>>> I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy.
>>>>>>> This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on
>>>>>>> it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have
>>>>>>> done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term
>>>>>>> just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy
>>>>>>> then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to
>>>>>>> Apple about it. To me this is like voting.
>>>>>>> If I
>>>>>>> talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about
>>>>>>> the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last
election.
>>>>>>> More
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually
>>>>>>> tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they
>>>>>>> don't participate in electing the government then they have no
>>>>>>> right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to
>>>>>>> Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a
>>>>>>> lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the
>>>>>>> time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com
>>>>>>> to make sure they know about the issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks.
>>>>>>> Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been
>>>>>>> gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its
>>>>>>> best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the
>>>>>>> level of accessibility iOs offers.
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only
>>>>>>> half the features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my
>>>>>>> Windows Smartphone with MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke
>>>>>>> and waste of time. Apps were almost non-existent and I wore out
>>>>>>> the battery cover on my phone because I had to open it up so
>>>>>>> often to take the battery out when it crashed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apple has done more for main stream accessibility in the last 4
>>>>>>> years than all other companies combined in the last 25 years yet
>>>>>>> here people are complaining about the horrible accessibility and
>>>>>>> how buying an expensive phone apparently gives them the right to
>>>>>>> have perfect accessibility and everything else. Next thing I'm
>>>>>>> sure people thing Apple is responsible for them being blind to
>>>>>>> begin with. But of course Apple, the most successful tech
>>>>>>> company ever, gets bashed left right and centre by everybody,
>>>>>>> why not by the blind. I for one find it is getting old and it's
>>>>>>> very tiring.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> don't think this attitude will motivate Apple do do better.
>>>>>>> Constructive
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> detailed reporting of bugs, maybe I should say "real bugs" not
>>>>>>> user error bugs and well thought-out suggestions for
>>>>>>> improvements will eventually make things better, I'm sure the
>>>>>>> accessibility team is not twittling their thumbs but instead are
>>>>>>> working on fixing reported bugs and issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Sieghard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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