Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details.
Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad > On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful > here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and > something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility > is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and > cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't > just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for > Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for > greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss > us this accessible scrap. > > It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People > should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be > cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's > reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations > of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs > and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as > people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, > and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled > and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're > having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be > better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect > resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. > >> On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: >> John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my >> Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because >> look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty >> good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching >> and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the >> Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make >> Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find >> another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that >> is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, >> sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows and Android. Now that my >> rant’s over, Regina, I have an iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi >> issues. >> >> Shawn >> Sent From My White Mac Book >> >>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou <jdiakoge2...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I think that Sieghard >>> put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about >>> their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy >>> with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the >>> vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite >>> well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. >>> At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new >>> version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the >>> phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us >>> upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the >>> ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just >>> a few short years ago. >>> >>> >>>> On 11/10/13, David Chittenden <dchitten...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. >>>> >>>> The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in >>>> Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO >>>> struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have >>>> quite >>>> a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles >>>> appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the >>>> form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual >>>> screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, >>>> there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. >>>> Physically >>>> find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual >>>> display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with >>>> the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to >>>> then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button >>>> above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases >>>> the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same >>>> procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or >>>> otherly worded button and split-tap it. >>>> >>>> again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many >>>> of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not >>>> impossible, for computer-based screen readers. >>>> >>>> In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using >>>> the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws >>>> cannot access on Windows and IE 10. >>>> >>>> As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows >>>> Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically >>>> written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the >>>> phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Here is my summary of this entire thread: >>>>> >>>>> The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable >>>>> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it >>>>> or >>>>> save it to contacts >>>>> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >>>>> >>>>> Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is >>>>> in >>>>> general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't >>>>> work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally >>>>> accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's "rights" are violated in a >>>>> number of ways. >>>>> >>>>> As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very >>>>> general >>>>> way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new >>>>> iOS >>>>> to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he >>>>> argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. >>>>> However, >>>>> this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to >>>>> upgrade >>>>> to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your >>>>> phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who >>>>> says >>>>> that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything >>>>> or >>>>> twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. >>>>> If >>>>> Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic >>>>> downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because >>>>> at >>>>> that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already >>>>> their >>>>> choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to >>>>> free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of >>>>> pressure >>>>> there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for >>>>> getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. >>>>> >>>>> Now, as to the 4 items above: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable >>>>> I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is >>>>> just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at >>>>> least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS >>>>> 7 >>>>> was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or >>>>> mentioned >>>>> a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. >>>>> There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and >>>>> that >>>>> is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's >>>>> right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. >>>>> As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was >>>>> hung >>>>> up or is still connected. >>>>> >>>>> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it >>>>> or >>>>> save it to contacts >>>>> This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for >>>>> them. >>>>> A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, >>>>> a >>>>> double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. >>>>> I'd >>>>> really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think >>>>> was >>>>> the one who posted that all of this didn't work. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >>>>> This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I >>>>> don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google >>>>> searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the >>>>> Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this >>>>> so >>>>> horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I >>>>> talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the >>>>> government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More >>>>> than >>>>> once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them >>>>> that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in >>>>> electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not >>>>> saying >>>>> Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters >>>>> problems, >>>>> but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes >>>>> the >>>>> time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make >>>>> sure >>>>> they know about the issues. >>>>> >>>>> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >>>>> Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for >>>>> some >>>>> time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the >>>>> iPhone >>>>> can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's >>>>> of >>>>> course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the >>>>> features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my Windows Smartphone >>>>> with MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke and waste of time. Apps were >>>>> almost non-existent and I wore out the battery cover on my phone because >>>>> I >>>>> had to open it up so often to take the battery out when it crashed. >>>>> >>>>> Apple has done more for main stream accessibility in the last 4 years >>>>> than >>>>> all other companies combined in the last 25 years yet here people are >>>>> complaining about the horrible accessibility and how buying an expensive >>>>> phone apparently gives them the right to have perfect accessibility and >>>>> everything else. Next thing I'm sure people thing Apple is responsible >>>>> for >>>>> them being blind to begin with. But of course Apple, the most successful >>>>> tech company ever, gets bashed left right and centre by everybody, why >>>>> not >>>>> by the blind. I for one find it is getting old and it's very tiring. I >>>>> also >>>>> don't think this attitude will motivate Apple do do better. Constructive >>>>> and >>>>> detailed reporting of bugs, maybe I should say "real bugs" not user error >>>>> bugs and well thought-out suggestions for improvements will eventually >>>>> make >>>>> things better, I'm sure the accessibility team is not twittling their >>>>> thumbs >>>>> but instead are working on fixing reported bugs and issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Sieghard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>>> Google Group. >>>>> >>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> >>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>>> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>>> Google >>>> Group. >>>> >>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>> >>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>>> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >>> Google Group. >>> >>> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> >>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >>> viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >>> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >>> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > > Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. > > Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > > Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing > viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. > > Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. 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