Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity? - discs.gif

[Horace Heffner]

On Oct 12, 2008, at 7:11 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
In reply to  Horace Heffner's message of Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:19:12  
-0800:
Hi,
[snip]

My initial point was that Michel's explanation of jet formation was  
unlikely to
be correct IMO, because there is little or no matter ejected at an  
angle between
that of the disc and that of the jet. His explanation made use of the
supposition that the gravitational field of the disc was  
perpendicular to it,
and I was pointing out that that wasn't so.

But it is so for a very thin disc, therefore a very thin disc can not  
exist in the vicinity of the black hole. A thin disc's field is not a  
1/r^2 field, nor even a 1/r field, but rather a uniform field  
directed at the disc.  This gives rise to rather extended z axis  
excursions for even slight z axis velocities.   The field of the disc  
itself is directed toward the x-y plane of the disc.  As material  
moves toward the comparatively tiny black hole this should give rise  
to a bulge in the disc and a considerable percentage of material  
arriving at the disc with large z axis velocity components.

However, material doesn't tend to arrive as particles or a gas. It  
tends to arrive in the form of stars or black holes.  In the case of  
stars the accretion disc is very small and clearly very thin.  We  
would thus not expect accretion into large black holes to be an  
explanation for jets that last millions of years, because hundreds of  
stars might be involved in that kind of time frame. Galactic centers  
are densely populated.


In short, I still don't see how the slingshot effect can provide an  
adequate
explanation for the jets.

On this I think you and I are agreed.  A very narrow jet would not be  
logical from the sligshot effect alone.


The only comment I made about your theory, was to point out that  
the disc is not
infinite.

True, and it is not infinitesimally thin, either condition of which  
is required for a true uniform gravitational field in close proximity  
to the disk and disk center.  However, even for an approximately thin  
disc, the central field is far from a 1/r^2 field, thus we see  
central galactic bulges.

A large accretion disc will eventually impart a large angular  
momentum to a black hole.  Black holes created by accretion of a  
binary star, should have an initially large angular momentum.  Under  
any quantum theory of gravity, including mine, a fast spinning black  
hole should have a powerful gravimagnetic field. Such a field would  
indeed tend to focus a beam into jets, oriented along the spin axis  
of the black hole, regardless the axis of the accretion disk of the  
moment. This is because the gravimagnetic Lorentz force cancels,  
redirects, tangential motion, while leaving the z axis motion alone.   
The z axis velocity, as with all velocity components, I think is  
greatly increased however by compression and heating of the accreting  
disc, so maybe the initial z axis velocity component is irrelevant.

Of further interest is the deduction in my theory that virtual  
particles carry no gravitational charge.  Therefore, the black hole,  
essentially representing a single nucleus comprised of all neutrons,  
magnetically aligned, will project a powerful magnetic field beyond  
its Swartzchild radius, with a strength corresponding to its mass.   
This magnetic field will assist ionization of the incoming accretion  
disc, development of a powerful equatorial current of counter  
revolving electrons and nuclei, and the formation of polar jets,  
again through application of the Lorentz force.  One interesting  
thing about this magnetic model is that microwaves should tend to be  
issued in the plane of the black hole spin more than in the jet  
direction.  Here again, even under this assumption, the ejection  
velocity of material in the jets should not be very uniform, even  
though the jet would be very narrow.

The only scenario I can see whereby the jets would take on a uniform  
velocity near c is the case where negative mass matter, dark matter  
coincidentally also having dark energy, originating within the black  
hole and interacting with the jet matter, accelerates the jet  
material to near light speed, and to an energy (velocity) spectrum  
corresponding to the mass of the black hole.  This is the scenario  
which is consistent with all aspects of my theory, and which notably  
does not even require an accretion disk for formation of the jets.

Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/