Ed,
I have no issue with long observations or even radar returns but
the argument for physical evidence would require some sort of temporal
paradox preventing these artifacts from being revealed. The observations
have been frequent, widespread and stretch too far into the past for
normal security to conceal a proportionally smaller amount of physical
evidence. If you are correct then there is another mystery of how the
security for these events was so well maintained for so long.
Fran
-----Original Message-----
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: The Abduction Paradigm
Hi Fran,
If you want to explain a phenomenon, you need to be aware of all the
evidence, not just that which fits a model. Physical evidence has
been found, a few UFO have been shot down, and they are seen for long
periods of time by many people including by radar. People have even
been taken into the crafts. While aliens are clearly using phenomenon
we do not yet understand, nothing that has been reported requires an
explanation such as you suggest. In fact, an organized group of
people exists who hold regular conferences in an effort to arrive at
an understanding based on the evidence, not imagination. You can
probably find out about this effort on the internet if you are
interested. I don't have time right now to track down the sources.
Ed
On Jul 27, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
> Hi Ed,
> I didn't know you were a member on here or I wouldn't have
> forwarded you that last thread.
>
> Regarding UFOs I feel the lack of physical evidence compared to the
> huge
> number of visual observations makes a stronger case for some kind of
> temporal lensing akin to gravitational lensing where we are able to
> view
> future spacecraft through a "window". This of course would also
> explain
> the difficulty chase aircraft have in following these UFO that
> suddenly
> appear to speed up and disappear as the aircraft fly past the temporal
> window and they scream past our peripheral vision even though our
> senses
> told us they were miles away as judged by their scale. If a star can
> bend spacetime to gravitationally lens a starfield hidden behind it
> then
> maybe Tesla was onto something regarding his theory of
> solidification of
> ether with high voltage, maybe a couple of high voltage shaped fields
> spaced miles apart could form some sort of temporal telescope where
> the
> observer catches glimpses of these everyday spacecraft from our
> future.
>
> Fran
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:56 AM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Cc: Edmund Storms
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: The Abduction Paradigm
>
> I too have studied and given lot of thought to the UFO phenomenon.
> Steven has provided a good description of many of my conclusions, so I
> won't try to add anything except to ask one question. Why do people
> have such a difficult time accepting such a well documented
> phenomenon? To start the discussion, I will provide my answer.
>
> Most people are incapable of accepting anything that is a threat to
> them. Such threats produce anxiety and are rejected in various ways
> as much as is possible. The idea of a superior life form that can
> abduct individuals at will is too much for most people to handle on an
> emotional level. Since nothing can be done about this threat, it is
> best ignored. Since this is a universal reaction of people with
> respect to many aspects of life, the opinion of the crowd cannot be
> accepted as a description of reality. This being the case, who can be
> trusted? This is the basic question we all have to answer because our
> individual fates in all aspects of life depend on choosing well. What
> criteria do you use to trust the opinion of another person? How much
> evidence, if any, do you need to accept a belief? The UFO phenomenon
> provides an incentive to answer such questions.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2009, at 7:11 PM, OrionWorks wrote:
>
>> Indeed, it's been an interesting slo Sunday.
>>
>> As is probably evident by some within the catacombs of the Vort
>> Collective, I have occasionally expressed a few opinions on this
>> so-called "abduction" matter. So, off the races I go once again in
>> the
>> hope that the following thought fodder might stimulate some to ponder
>> this mystery in a manner where no-one has gone before.
>>
>> IMO, there isn't an educated person on this planet who doesn't
>> implicitly believe in the indisputable fact that UFOs exist. The real
>> question is: What *are* UFOs, and a smarmy subject that is, be it
>> "swamp gas", or encounters with nearby neighbors. Regarding the
>> abduction experience, sometimes referred to as the "experiencer"
>> phenomenon, I have begun to draw a few tentative conclusions over the
>> past couple of decades:
>>
>> It is possible that a sub-category of "encounters" may very well turn
>> out to be classic abduction experiences, something akin to "catch and
>> release" programs that we ourselves perform as we study and gather
>> information on endangered life forms on our own planet.
>>
>> However, at present I've come to the tentative suspicion that a
>> significant sampling, if not most of "abductions", are the result of
>> our species attempt to interface with something far more interesting
>> and profound than your typical run-of-the-mill "catch and release"
>> program.
>>
>> Anyone who has studied the phenomenon quickly discovers the
>> interesting fact that the "abduction" experience tends to run in the
>> family. Abduction experiences are inter-generational - grandparents,
>> parents, children... A logical conclusion to draw from this
>> observation is the likelihood that there must exist a genetic
>> component, a predisposition to having the abduction experience. Just
>> how far back in the gene pool have these experiences been manifesting
>> their effects on our species? It seems logical for me to speculate:
>> Possibly since the inception of Homo Sapiens.
>>
>> From what I can tell there doesn't seem to be anything special about
>> those who claim they are abductees/experiencers. The propensity to
>> experience the abduction scenario seems to be randomly disbursed
>> throughout the entire human population. The result of such randomness
>> would suggest that some experiencers will turn out to be naturally
>> smarter, better educated than others. One's cultural background will
>> definitely influence how one interprets it. Depending on how much
>> support an experiencer receives when they first begin the often
>> difficult and all-too-often psychologically harrowing journey of
>> consciously acknowledging their experiences, the better equipped they
>> are likely to be in handling and ultimately integrating it into the
>> intimate fabric of their lives.
>>
>> Of course, everyone wants to know the $64,000 question: Is the
>> phenomenon really real? Are people *really*, physically being
>> abducted, or is it all just fantasy? All that most of us
>> non-abductees, us mundanes can conclude is the fact that it feels
>> real, terrifying real and acutely physical to those who experience
>> it.
>>
>> I personally think far too much emphasis has been put on attempts to
>> either legitimize or debunk the experience. Just as debunkers attempt
>> to ridicule and marginalize the experience as nothing more than weird
>> clinically diagnosable psychological aberrations possibly pertaining
>> the brain chemistry (or perhaps the result of bad upbringing), some
>> experiencers try just as valiantly to prove with equal ferocity that
>> their experiences are physically happening. I've personally come to
>> the tentative conclusion that attempts to either prove or disprove
>> its
>> legitimacy will fail. The continuing struggle also distracts us from
>> the real work at hand. Continued confrontations, I fear, miss the
>> mark, and badly I might add.
>>
>> All too often what is being overlooked is the fact that a certain
>> portion of our population continues to have the experience. I suspect
>> a portion of our population always has. There is every indication to
>> assume the likelihood that a distinct sampling of our population will
>> continue to encounter and manifest within themselves these
>> experiences. Therefore, attempts to dismiss the experiences as not
>> being "real" will, in the longer run, prove unproductive precisely
>> because the phenomenon will continue to persist no matter what the
>> current paradigms of science and psychology have to say on the
>> subject, ESPECIALLY if these learned institutions attempt to corral
>> it
>> into safe theoretical boundaries, possibly in attempts to marginalize
>> it.
>>
>> I suspect such tactics will ultimately fail, not because the
>> experiencer phenomenon will continue to persist, but because it may
>> also an intimate vital part of what makes us Homo sapiens. From
>> what I
>> can tell there appears to be a super-intelligent component to the
>> phenomenon that I'm beginning to suspect we deeply need as a species
>> in order to both survive and evolve. It may be time that we begin to
>> consciously acknowledge the legitimacy of its presence, in the same
>> way that the experience has always been acknowledged unconsciously
>> such as within our psyches of abductees. Make no mistake about this:
>> Conscious or unconsciously acknowledged its effects are real either
>> way.
>>
>> It quickly becomes apparent to many experiencers that, regardless of
>> whether they are "open" to the experience or not, they are
>> encountering something vastly intelligent and incomprehensible to
>> their own concept of a "self". By the very nature of the
>> incomprehensibility of the experience as they encounter it, it is
>> natural to interpret it as exceedingly threatening, particularly
>> within the framework of our current cultural/religious
>> interpretations
>> of a "self". In the presence of the abduction experience the sense of
>> "self" tends to feel both profoundly insignificant and vulnerable to
>> complete and utter annihilation, particularly if "contact" with the
>> experience is allowed to proceed.
>>
>> It is conceivable to me that these experiences are linked to the more
>> primal portions of our unknown psyche, vast untapped "alienated"
>> portions of ourselves that are nevertheless attempting to establish
>> (reestablish?) communication with the more acceptable/prosaic
>> portions
>> of our psyches. It's equally possible that such encounters are
>> currently the only avenue available to us in terms of "communication"
>> with sentient intelligences, some possibly on the order of millions
>> of
>> years more advanced than our own tentative baby steps. Perhaps an
>> even
>> more interesting conclusion that might be drawn is the possibility
>> that we will ultimately discover that these seemingly divergent
>> conclusions are simply different aspects of the same thing,
>> particularly when we begin delving into the fundamental nature of
>> what
>> the "self" is comprised of.
>>
>> A conclusion that some researchers are beginning to draw from their
>> research, a conclusion that I also find myself in sympathy with, is
>> the possibility that these experiences may turn out to be the driving
>> force behind our most powerful myths, folklore, and religions that
>> have manifested on our planet. Such a conclusion, if it turns out to
>> be accurate, (and I suspect it may very well be close to the mark)
>> should cause most who are educated to ponder the folly of all who
>> continue attempts to dismiss the phenomenon as nothing more than a
>> curious albeit fascinating "aberrations" of the human condition.
>>
>> I'd like to end this essay on both a positive note and a negative
>> warning.
>>
>> First the positive note: the abduction experience may turn out to be
>> an essential component of ourselves, an aspect of ourselves that I
>> hope humanity will eventually feel more comfortable simply accepting
>> as-is, without the need to prove or disprove it as either being
>> "real"
>> or "unreal". In the end the primal components that make up the
>> abduction experience, the abduction paradigm, may be no more or less
>> legitimate than the human condition we experience as art, dance,
>> music, literature, architecture, and other profound human
>> achievements. One thing I've noticed time and time again from many
>> experiencers I've had the privilege of conversing with, particularly
>> those who have been fortunate enough to have been able to surround
>> themselves with proper emotional support, is the fact that they tend
>> to come out at the other end transformed. Those who are better
>> educated and more emotionally adjusted, especially the lucky who
>> received emotional support, are often transformed into better human
>> beings. They become more aware and concerned about the well being of
>> humanity, the profound interconnectivity everyone shares with one
>> another, and of the health of the planet.
>>
>> And now, the warning: If we continue to deny the simple legitimacy of
>> the experience, particularly in the manner that it is commonly
>> experienced; if we continue to view it with prejudice; if we continue
>> to dismiss it as inconsequential, or worse, as nothing more than an
>> annoying, medically treatable psychological aberration, we will only
>> succeed in driving the phenomenon underground within the collective
>> psyche of our species. This will subsequently result in a continued
>> upwelling of psychic insurgencies as the experience continues to
>> strafe the "better sensibilities" attributed to the current cultural
>> predilections of our society. As it is driven underground, the
>> phenomenon will simply continue to plot its own course in the
>> tireless, relentless manner that it has always done with
>> civilizations
>> past, patiently and methodically, until it manages to pull off its
>> own
>> "9/11". A possible consequence of such folly: A new religion.
>>
>> Regards
>> Steven Vincent Johnson
>> www.OrionWorks.com
>> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>>
>
