I think that we are heading toward agreement Eric. The lack of heating within the gas or through the cylinder walls, etc. is problematic for this system. I am fairly confident that these inventors do not claim that the electrical energy recovered due to the returning piston is significant compared to the mechanical output.
Dave -----Original Message----- From: Eric Walker <eric.wal...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Sun, Dec 30, 2012 10:15 pm Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Eric Walker <eric.wal...@gmail.com> wrote: I suspect that work must necessarily be done on the Papp popper at the very beginning, during the first discharge, and that this work can be measured and tell us whether the cycle is overunity. But as I think about it more, I agree that, without significant heat (or electricity) production, there is potentially an energy balance problem to be dealt with. The heat might be generated at the engine, or it might be generated by the engine doing work on something in the environment or in creating electric current. There would essentially be an adiabatic transfer of energy from one form to another after the engine gets going unless the energy is allowed to exit the system. The fact that the Papp engine is not reported to heat up significantly adds an interesting twist to the story. Eric
