Jones, You may not have followed the thread I started, 'Of NAEs and Nothingness'.
It was like pulling teeth, but I think Ed and I established some common ground that when a 'dislocation' or void forms in the host material, and *before* any H or D diffuses into this void, it is a (near perfect) vacuum. There could be E or B fields present, but those are not 'matter', so the NAE is essentially a 'vacuum chamber' at 0K, and likely better than anything that our hi-tech vacuum pumps can produce. Is this not the kind of 'chamber' which could support the formation of BECs??? Let's continue on with that line of reasoning. When any atom enters the NAE, the only energy it has is what it brings with it. The E or B fields within would likely cause the atom to align itself with those fields to reach a minimal energy orientation. If the fields serve to (physically?) restrict atomic motion or size or shape, then that could initiate photon emission of some of the thermal energy which the atom had when it entered the NAE. If enough thermal energy is shed, and this happens to a number of such atoms in the NAE, they would spontaneously form a BEC. In the BEC experiments that I've read, they use laser and/or *magnetic* evaporative cooling to reduce the temp of the atoms until, at some threshold temp (in the nanoKelvins), they coalesce into the BEC. Condensation of magnons has occurred at 14K (see excerpt below), which is orders of magnitude higher than with the usual BEC setup (atomic gases). Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry on BECs: "The Bose-Einstein condensation also applies to quasiparticles in solids. A magnon in an antiferromagnet carries spin 1 and thus obeys Bose-Einstein statistics. The density of magnons is controlled by an external magnetic field, which plays the role of the magnon chemical potential. This technique provides access to a wide range of boson densities from the limit of a dilute Bose gas to that of a strongly interacting Bose liquid. [EMPHASIS] A magnetic ordering observed at the point of condensation is the analog of superfluidity. In 1999 Bose condensation of magnons was demonstrated in the antiferromagnet TlCuCl3.[18] The condensation was observed at *temperatures as large as 14 K*. Such a high transition temperature (relative to that of atomic gases) is due to the greater density achievable with magnons and the smaller mass (roughly equal to the mass of an electron). In 2006, condensation of magnons in ferromagnets was even shown at room temperature,[19][20] where the authors used pumping techniques." Still haven't found the bottom of the rabbit hole. ;-) Relevant links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose-Einstein_condensate> -Einstein_condensate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_evaporative_cooling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cooling -Mark Iverson From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:53 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:BEC transforms photon frequency From: Edmund Storms I'm saying that BEC is known to form near absolute zero but has not been shown to form BETWEEN ATOMS at higher temperatures. People have PROPOSED BEC formation at high temperature between energy states but this has not been fully demonstrated or shown to apply to atoms. I will go further than Ed on this one. The BEC simply CANNOT form at higher than absolute zero in real matter- and certainly not at several hundred degrees C. There is a pretty good thread on Slashdot on this subject, and it is almost by definition. Polaritons are not real matter. That these are only an abstraction should be obvious to all . but apparently, it has not registered with a few of us that polaritons are imaginary "quasiparticles" - and although they may be useful as descriptive aids for how collective systems operate in practice, including LENR - they are fictitious. You do not need a physics text to understand the implications of higher temperature BECs in real matter - a "Cat's Cradle" will suffice, thanks to a fabulous old metaphor. So - even if you can find a paper on room temperature BECs in polaritons or magnons (my favorite quasiparticle for LENR), there are no paper for BEC real matter significantly above absolute zero. At least none that I know of - and in general, it should be obvious that if this kind of condensation could happen with real particles in real-world situations, then we (humanity) would be in trouble. Common sense should tell you - if this could happen easily - it is the proto-typical "Ice-nine" syndrome. On the one hand, Ice-nine is what would put the "cold" back into cold fusion, but thankfully or sadly, depending on your PoV, quasiparticles are not particles. Jones
