Being one of the old people, I would like to share my impression of
this issue.
Most young people are ignorant, self-centered, and without much
imagination. When they become old people, most remain ignorant, self-
centered, and without imagination. Growing old simply gives a person
who wants knowledge a chance to get knowledge. It does not increase
the incentive to get knowledge. Therefore, if you want advice from
either the young or old, do not look at the age. Look at the
willingness to learn and at the degree of imagination. Consequently,
this discussion is focusing on the wrong variable.
On Sep 25, 2013, at 9:46 AM, James Bowery wrote:
The scientific approach, of course, would be two establish two
groups, one a control group and the other a treatment group where
the "treatment" is the proposed change, in this case the age limit.
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Alain Sepeda
<alain.sep...@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree too that most of incentive in Science is status (science in
real life is very like political in a way as my dear MP secretary
explained to me).
about removing older people from decision, I think it can be evil too.
From decision maybe, but from discussion no.
I see that older people often, because they can have no huge
ambition for future, because they can have enough protection to feel
safe, because they can have more ego than fear of the future, those
fearless people, can play the rebels...
In the early 20th century , young could play the rebels, they had
to, but I'm afraid modern generation of scientists are so dependent
on career and funding, that they cannot take the risk to think out
of the funding box.
They are also often too submitted to fashion, while oldies can
remind of a period when things were different.
they will be what Norbert Alter called "alien", people who
Today in many controversies,; I see only oldies, who take , for best
and worst (I don't agree, mostly for best), crazy positions against
the consensus, based on old knowledge, old evidences, of their
memory of a period where feeling and trends were different.
In the late 19th century, oldies were conservatives in a stable
society.
Today oldies are keepers of dead times, of dead culture, of outdated
consensus, washed by waves of fashions and new consensus.
Oldies are rebels, aliens, foreigner of their time, like were the
young before.
Like old heros, they can decide to suicide their career to defend
their micro-ethics, not afraid of anything worse than the planned
story... retirement and death.
Maybe they are wrong, but sure you should not remove them from the
story.
They are what the young were before.
If you look for young rebel, forget in science, go to business.
However I agree that out of science, oldies often are more defending
their honeypot, surfing on fashion, rather than rebels or defender
of old values.
2013/9/25 Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com>
James Bowery <jabow...@gmail.com> wrote:
There is also opposition from many ordinary people and many stupid
people at places like Wikipedia
In all of these cases we're dealing with the incentives of social
status more than authority structure.
I agree. I would say it is ordinary primate behavior, similar to
what you see in our cousins the chimpanzees, and in other group
hunting predators such as wolves. (I am not denigrating this
behavior. I have great respect for other species.)
So how do you identify the Jason(s) most likely to be more concerned
with national security than peer pressure?
I wouldn't know. I have never met 'em. I don't even know who they
all are. I know some people who have met with them, and meet with
them every year. I get the impression the Jasons are a bunch of
washed up old farts who are opposed to everything that wasn't
discovered before they turned 30, which was a long time ago. But I
could be wrong.
I know that one or two of them often pull strings to have cold
fusion funding cancelled.
It is big mistake to give any scientist over 30 a role in allocating
money or making decisions. The way to make progress is get a large
pot of money and hand it out to young people, letting them do
whatever they please with it. Some of them will waste it. A few may
steal it. But most will make far better use of it than an old
scientist could. Young people succeed in doing things the older
people think are impossible, because the young people have not yet
learned where the boundary between possible and impossible likes.
Actually, that boundary is imaginary, like a geographical boundary
-- a state line, or a property line. No one knows what is possible
and what isn't. No one can even imagine.
- Jed
