On Mar 3, 7:23 pm, John Heenan <johnmhee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 4, 2:17 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > Some of the answers are funny. Mostly they are consistent with one
> > exception.
> > Perhaps a web2py hat is better than a t-shirt. I lost mine last
> > summer. :-(
>
> Rather flippant given that someone has gone to some effort to set up a
> survey to help out Web2py and that the survey responses were careful.
Perhaps my comment did not come out right. This was a good idea. When
I said some some of the answers are "funny" I meant it in a positive
sense. Perhaps I did not translated the concept I have in my mind
("simpatiche" in Italian) in the proper english.
> As I see it the real goal of Web2py is to become more popular than
> Django. I do not see this as healthy.
I do not think this is the goal. I think the future of python
frameworks is correlated, not anti-correlated.
> Like it or not, for whatever reasons the Python community is
> interested in Django and not in Web2py, as evidenced through
> democratic votes of PyCon participants about what participants want to
> attend presentations about.
I was part of the process so I have something to add about this. For
three years there has been no talk and no tutorials about web2py,
although for three years I have submitted proposals. I was on a panel
discussion at PyCon 2009 because Guido stepped in and told them
excluding web2py was unfair. I was invited to a panel discussion at
PyCon 2010 but I did not go because 5 minutes of air time are not
worth the costs.
It is not the participants making the choice but a small set of
organizers. The decision process by the organizers is indeed
democratic (one person one vote) and I was one of them, but the rules
are debatable because the goal is unclear. One problem is that
basically few people participate to all rounds of discussions and in
practice it takes only one or two people to essentially veto a talk.
Some people when confronted with the choice tend to give a preference
to talks that they perceive to be more popular (for example Django vs
TG or web.py or web2py) and to "good speakers" defined as those who
have already presented at PyCon before. I have argued that the goal of
PyCon should be to broaden the audience (identify medium/large sub-
communities and give them representation) as opposed to consolidate
existing audience by giving a majority premium to largest communities
(such as ~24 hours of Django tutorials/talks and almost nothing to
other web frameworks). Of course the Django tutorials were the most
popular since by filtering out smaller communities the Django users
were the largest community represented at PyCon. The result is that
almost nobody from our list of 1600 people attended PyCon 2010. This
is not a problem for us as much as it is a problem for PyCon and the
Python community in general.
Although I have published some technical comparisons between web2py
and Django (as well as between web2py and other web frameworks) you
will not find any post from me or other members less than deferential
towards Django. Although, unfortunately, the opposite is not true,
negative remarks tend to come from the low end of the food chain. In
fact top Django developers and contributors are nice, intelligent and
friendly people.
Moreover I am not convinced at all that the Django community is
particularly hostile to web2py. It is just very large so it is more
likely that some particularly vocal people belong to it. The people
who have been most annoying online (and I know who they are) are not
Django cheerleaders either.
Some people have been offended by a few comments of mine like "[that
piece of software] is horrible" or "building an ORM is not rocket
science". In there first case the comment just did not come out right
and I apologized. In the second case I stand by what I said.
I personally care more about design and integrity of the framework
than its popularity.
Massimo
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