I certainly do understand the lunacy of how these decisions get made.
In fact one of the major reasons our company gave for nixing WO was
the tools were going open source. "We can't afford to depend on open
source tools for our enterprise applications!" This is the kind of
ridiculous thinking that's far too common in today's so-called
enterprises.
I envy those in situations where you can say, "Just tell them how
cool WebObjects is and they will listen." That is so untrue for many
of us. Once certain people get certain ideas in their head, no matter
how they came to those conclusions, you done. There's nothing more
you can do besides move on or move out.
On Apr 9, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Robert B.Hanviriyapunt wrote:
Man, I really wish the problem were resources. I, myself, am a
supporter, a fan, a experienced developer of, an advocate of
WebObjects. I personally have some issues with the fact that the
native tools are gone (when and if I get to WO5.4). But as far as
the business's decisions to nix WebObjects are the first two items:
1. WebObjects is proprietary
2. New versions of WebObjects are not supported on Windows
If Apple would just take care of ONE of these two, the company
would be super happy! *I'D* be happy! And we could get on with
our lives. THEN, with the continued development with WebObjects I
could ask you, James, for help and whatnot, or even get the ok to
get another WebO guy in here! (Sorry, somehow people have been
starting to say "WebO" to the chagrin of many)
As for your response, Jeff, we have 3 developers (including me).
The main developer is the director of technology. She's big on
POJO, big on "standard" Java development, interested in RIA w/
OpenLaszlo, big on opensource stuff (I think her next plan is to
use Java Server Faces w/ Struts), and has inherited an app that
uses WebO for just session management and HTML rendering (UI). And
she has decided to go OpenLaszlo w/ Struts on top of the existing
Java-based core. Tools (for others, not me -- I requested a Mac)
are Eclipse/WOLips. She let me have a Mac but often pops up the
questions of unknown [Mac] platform issues even as I report that I
account for any issues (which are really none -- I use XP on
Parallels to run our apps and setup is a bit convoluted -- don't
get me started). Yep, I'm a Mac guy thru and thru. I agree with
you that WebO is much better designed, but somehow that is not
evident to the powers that be. As for Linux, we have a .NET (black
box) app we interface with and got a deal on DELL servers (I don't
think XServes are ever getting in here).
In general, we ARE in good shape ... with the exception that I've
started working on an OpenLaszlo/Struts app (which is on hold) and
am now on JSFaces development. I would LOVE to get back to WebO
and even show them EOF! But perhaps it's too late. The only thing
that can turn it around is the changes mentioned above
(proprietariness and/or Windows support).
= Robert =
Begin forwarded message:
From: James Cicenia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: April 9, 2008 9:10:51 AM CDT
To: Robert B. Hanviriyapunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Leaving WebObjects
Don't know if this helps or not...
But I am an experienced WO Developer here in Chicago. If you need
any help in development with WO, I am quite confident you will
find me quite productive.
Regards,
James Cicenia
773.398.4649
Begin forwarded message:
From: Jeff Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: April 9, 2008 11:02:40 AM CDT
To: "Robert B. Hanviriyapunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
Subject: Re: Leaving WebObjects
I think there are a few technology director types that would have
an issue with #1 and #2, although I feel like they're easy to get
through. Proprietary usually means expensive to get into and
either unsupported or supported with significant costs (think back
to the multi-processor deployment license cost and bronze-silver-
gold Apple Enterprise Support packages).
I think for it being relatively free now (included w/developer
tools, free Eclipse, free WOLips, etc.) and the public support out
there (like this list) you're still in good shape.
For #2, you can certainly develop on Windows since it's just
Eclipse/Java right now. I just don't know too many developers
that would actually want to use Windows to write code these days
aside from .NET stuff. You could even deploy on Windows using
something like Tomcat I believe--but again why not just use Linux
and save even more? I know a few devs out there that prefer (even
like) Windows so I say go for it if it's your thing.
But here's the trick: WO sells itself. It's usually fewer devs,
shorter time to deployment, fewer bugs and a much better designed
application. Use your time for your product features and not on
just getting it work. If you look at it from a time and cost
standpoint it still makes a lot of sense.
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