Hi Dave, On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:30 PM, David Avendasora<webobje...@avendasora.com> wrote: > Hi yllan, > I haven't had my coffee yet today, so I'm feeling crabby... > On Jun 13, 2009, at 3:07 AM, Yung-Luen Lan wrote: >> Since Apple itself is still using WebObjects for MobileMe, iTunes >> store, AppleStore website, RADAR, devforums and many other system, >> it's difficult to totally replace all the webobjects app to other >> technology at once. > Or ever. WO not only runs their public-facing apps, but it is also the > foundation of almost every other internal application at Apple. Somebody > from Apple once said "every penny that Apple makes flows through WO at some > point". This is not something that they are going to walk away from.
>> Although WO 5.5/5.6 is coming, I personally >> do not expect any other good news from Apple. First deprecates >> wo-tools, > I don't know how often this needs to be said, but the deprecation of the > Apple-developed tools was very good news for WebObjects. The Cocoa-Java > Bridge that these tools were based on was deprecated and wouldn't be > available in Leopard. So Apple was faced with needing to re-write all the > WO-specific dev tools from scratch. But they very wisely saw that the > Eclipse-based toolset (WOLips) was already more powerful and less buggy and > they chose to _support_ that instead. The tools changed, they didn't > disappear. > Their decision to recommend, use and invest in WOLips has had a hugely > positive impact on the ongoing development of the WO frameworks _and_ the > Dev Tools. All internal WO development can now focus on improving the > frameworks instead of being sidetracked by the tools. And improve they have. > The new templating system in WO 5.4 is really amazing. > The strides that WOLips has made over the last year with Apple's backing is > simply phenomenal. I knew that the WO runtime has been improved over year, and Apple uses many WO in their web applications notheless internal or external. What I concerned about the future of WO is, will Apple promote WO to public? Go to http://developer.apple.com/referencelibrary/ check how many WO documents were produced after 2007. Only 4. The latest one even doesn't finished yet. The example code come with Xcode are a bit outdated and problematic. I still remember how stupid I were last year when I came to WWDC WebObjects Lab. However, even Pascal Robert can't get the Apple examples compiled on my system. I'm not sure if Apple has fixed that, but the environment is unfriendly to new learner. Besides the lack of documentation, another point is how much effort made by Apple goes directly into the community. Of course WOLips will be benefit if WO runtime has improvements, but did Apple ever sponsor WOLips just like what they did to clang? Or any WO-related thing Apple want to make it as industry standard just like block in C, OpenCL, llvm? I mean, if they improve WO just only becasue they have a lot of WO web apps (think about what Adobe will do if they are accessible to carbon frameworks--make a 64bit version without a totally rewrite) and are going to use WO only for Apple's own applications without promoting to public, it's not a good thing to developers outside Apple. >> --I even talked to an Apple >> employee at WWDC08 and he said, "You are using WebObjects? I thought >> only europeans use that." Of course it's just kidding in a very >> private conversation, but it more or less shows that not all Apple >> employees are satisfying with WebObjects, > Yeah. One guy makes a snide remark and you take it to mean there's a > fundamental problem with WO? No. Just like I said, it's not a problem of essence of WebObjects at all. >> Even Apple's current wo apps were not good testimonials for WO. > Based on what? That's a big statement. (1) I often got a seesion timeout when I download iPhone SDK or something right after I login into developer program page. (2) The session management is a mess in iTunesConnect. (3) When I click into an article in page 3 of devforum and jump back, it goes to page 1. (4) Short-lived session (since I type English very slow, RADAR often kicks me out.) (5) Apple Online Store made some bad assumption on the name of customer and rewrite the bad data to apple acount. No way to change. One of my friend got his name displayed on AppStore as "股公司 liu" for a long time. The first part is not even part of his name! (6) ...... Again, I'm not saying it's because the essense of WO, it may be caused by flawed design, not well-trained programmer, misunderstood of requirements or anything. What I said is, Apple's current wo apps are not good web apps comaring to other web apps I've used. Since it's not an excellent web app (no matter what cause that), it will not be a good testimonial of WO. Just my two cents. Regards, yllan _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
