On 25/11/2009, at 11:03 AM, Gaastra Dennis - WO Lists wrote: >> >> Let's remember *why* these community conventions were organised... because >> Apple, who used to offer various training in WO even internationally at one >> stage has decided to offer very little. >> >> Now it seems to me, given their WO direction, that it was good for them to >> consolidate and concentrate on the frameworks - rather than the tools etc. >> Having a vibrant community for your technology is not the enemy you're >> making it out to be. > > IMHO, nobody is making any enemies here.
Of course. > One could ague that Apple is recognizing the community and adjusting its > convention strategy accordingly. Why have WO sessions at WWDC if such content > are much better addressed at WOWODC? I'm just making the point that Apple is not responding to the community's drive to run conventions by pulling back - they pulled back beforehand. Pascal didn't organise WOWODC because he wanted to duplicate efforts. But certainly Apple being involved in WOWODC is a good thing. >> Please no one dare have a Cocoa meeting as otherwise Apple won't provide >> their own ;-) >> >>>> My 2 cents. >> >> I raise you 3 ;-) > > Those were not mine, but Martin's :-) > > With Kind Regards, > > Dennis Gaastra, > Chief Technology Officer, > WEBAPPZ Systems, Inc. > >> >>>> kind regards, >>>> Martin. >>> >>> With Kind Regards, >>> >>> Dennis Gaastra, >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Johnny Miller <jlmil...@kahalawai.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> I agree that it's not smart to wait for Apple and I for one can continue >>>> using WO by relying on the aid of the Wonder community. >>>> >>>> But HP and IBM are 100 billion dollar + companies. At some point to grow >>>> revenue Apple is going to have to go back into the enterprise. >>>> >>>> I just don't understand why Apple doesn't treat WO as a loss leader until >>>> they are ready to diversify from consumer related products. They could >>>> have a great story in a vibrant community with lots of different kinds of >>>> apps deployed. >>>> >>>> Just my 2 cents. >>>> >>>> Johnny >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Anjo Krank wrote: >>>> >>>>> Apple is a (what's it now 20? 30?) billion dollar company. They are (and >>>>> should be) driven by what benefits their shareholders. It *may* be that >>>>> some push from inside of Apple by some more enthusiastic developers >>>>> inside of Apple *may* result in some - er, I can hardly say the word >>>>> without a giggle fit - "speedier" release process. >>>>> >>>>> But frankly, there is ample evidence to the contrary, that no matter how >>>>> much prodding, begging or bitching will change the actual results in the >>>>> slightest. >>>>> >>>>> So I'd say that waiting for them to do something is plain stupid. If you >>>>> rely on that, you're dead in the water. You just may not know it :) And >>>>> btw, I'm "stuck" with 5.3.whatever and so far had no real problem with it. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, Anjo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am 24.11.2009 um 22:20 schrieb Gaastra Dennis - WO Lists: >>>>> >>>>>> This is funny; however, from our experience, Apple does actually listen >>>>>> to us, and showing them an "i don't care" attitude will most likely >>>>>> result in us being stuck with 5.4.3 & Wonder, and Apple keeping >>>>>> WebObjects to themselves, and we'll never be synchronized with the >>>>>> latest and greatest Apple versions again, because we think we can all do >>>>>> it on our own. Very smart. >>>>>> >>>>>> With Kind Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis Gaastra, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2009-11-24, at 12:04 PM, Anjo Krank wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jesus. Apple will do what they want. Nothing you, I or anybody else >>>>>>> says or does will make much of a difference. Nor should we really care, >>>>>>> it's not like they did something useful in the last 5 years or so. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You sound like they were some sort of rain god. "Let's show we are >>>>>>> loyal, or else HE might smite us like the flies we are!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, Anjo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 24.11.2009 um 20:36 schrieb Gaastra Dennis - WO Lists: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If we want Apple to release new WebObjects versions, beyond 5.4.3, to >>>>>>>> the community, the worst thing we can do is talking about Windows and >>>>>>>> Linux. We should be very clear about this: if we expect Apple to do >>>>>>>> anything for us in the regard, we should be loyal to Apple by only >>>>>>>> developing and deploying on Apple equipment. Otherwise, I am afraid >>>>>>>> that 5.4.3 will be the last version we will ever see... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With Kind Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dennis Gaastra, >>>>>>>> Chief Technology Officer, >>>>>>>> WEBAPPZ Systems, Inc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only >>>>>>>> for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you >>>>>>>> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify >>>>>>>> the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by >>>>>>>> mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission >>>>>>>> cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could >>>>>>>> be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, >>>>>>>> or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for >>>>>>>> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise >>>>>>>> as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please >>>>>>>> request a hard-copy version. WEBAPPZ Systems, Inc., 726 - 1489 Marine >>>>>>>> Drive, West Vancouver, BC, CANADA V7T 1B8, www.webappz.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2009-11-24, at 10:19 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1) The customer sometimes is willing to compromise and give you a >>>>>>>>> Linux box ... deployment on Linux is as easy as Mac more-or-less. So, >>>>>>>>> if they won't let you use Mac, ask if you can use Linux.... and setup >>>>>>>>> CentOS or RHEL on it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2) Project Wonder has source for Adaptors. I see IIS adaptor source >>>>>>>>> in there. No idea how good it is: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> /Wonder/Utilities/Adaptors/IIS/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> HTH, Kieran >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Ralph Scheuer wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello everybody, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> due to the fact that some of our customers use Windows servers, I >>>>>>>>>> would be interested how others deploy their WO apps on Windows these >>>>>>>>>> days... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The wiki only refers to Apache when it comes to WO 5.4 on Windows >>>>>>>>>> and does not mention IIS... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> However, some customers need specific IIS features like >>>>>>>>>> Single-Sign-On via ActiveDirectory or do not want another web server >>>>>>>>>> for political reasons. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How do you deal with that? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is it still possible to use the old 5.2 adaptors (CGI or ISAPI) with >>>>>>>>>> modern IIS versions and WO 5.4? How about 64-bit-ness? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Would it be possible to set up WO 5.2 and just replace all the >>>>>>>>>> frameworks with the 5.4 equivalents so that at least the CGI adaptor >>>>>>>>>> (WebObjects.exe) from the old version works? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Has Apple ever released the source of the Windows adaptors so that >>>>>>>>>> they could be recompiled for 64-bit IIS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your input. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kieran_lists%40mac.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This email sent to kieran_li...@mac.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects_lists%40webappz.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to webobjects_li...@webappz.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/anjo%40krank.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to a...@krank.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jlmiller%40kahalawai.com >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to jlmil...@kahalawai.com >>>> >>>> Johnny Miller >>>> Kahalawai Media Corp >>>> http://www.kahalawai.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/perezbarreiro%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to perezbarre...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects_lists%40webappz.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to webobjects_li...@webappz.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lachlan.deck%40gmail.com >>> >>> This email sent to lachlan.d...@gmail.com >> >> with regards, >> -- >> >> Lachlan Deck >> >> >> > with regards, -- Lachlan Deck _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. 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