Sam, as I don't think I understand what you are asking, perhaps you could ask
your question again maybe with an example distinguishing between
written/oral/online/wiki.
Sent from my iPad
> On 7 Mar 2015, at 8:57 am, Sam Katz <smk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To those following:
> I think this is a valid question I am raising. The question of whether
> written communication has a different way of relating than oral, in
> the context of a wiki, which by definition is collaborative, tracks
> users but allows anonymous editing, is a valid question.
>
> Anonymity and pen names were first used often times by women.
>
> I will also note that in terms of interface biases, Facebook and other
> platforms (Acquia Commons) that use photos of their users as
> adornments, to show what users have posted do worse than wikipedia in
> terms of encouraging safety and courage ("be bold in editing") among
> their users.
>
> Clarifying what the question is in this thread is a good first step
> towards answering it. If I was confused, I stand corrected, but I
> believe this is an important discussion to have.
>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Kerry Raymond <kerry.raym...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Do you say that as a man or as a woman?
>>
>> As a woman, you are assumed to be male routinely in real life and online.
>> Many people make no effort whatsoever, letters addressed to "Dr Sir" etc.
>>
>> Has it got better over the years? Yes, in my real life, it has got somewhat
>> better over the years. But getting involved in Wikipedia and its discussions
>> about gender is like being back in 1970s. "Do we really have a gender gap?"
>> "Does it matter if we have a gender gap?"
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> [mailto:wiki-research-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Sam Katz
>> Sent: Saturday, 7 March 2015 2:54 AM
>> To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities
>> Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd:
>> [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
>>
>> hey,
>>
>> I just want to note that I am not convinced that gender expression
>> online or indeed expression in general is the same as it is in real
>> space. Granted, this may be stylistically what you are trying to
>> prove. But I just wanted to add my two cents, that indeed it may not
>> have a gender bias directly if the structure does not impose it.
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 9:08 AM, <koltzenb...@w4w.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Frances,
>>>
>>> your assumption (an "unknown" user in a language where
>>> personal nouns are gendered will always display the
>>> masculine form) is correct for deWP, I just tested it from a
>>> new dummy account.
>>>
>>> you might call it a truly sytemic bias, and especially so
>>> because community majority has not seen to changing that
>>> space into gender friendly space for all, it seems.
>>>
>>> so this adds another item of disharmony to my cautious note
>>> on gender stats
>>>
>>> best,
>>> Claudia
>>> ---------- Original Message -----------
>>> From:Frances Hocutt <fhoc...@wikimedia.org>
>>> To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities
>>> <wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>> Sent:Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:43:04 -0800
>>> Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender
>>> stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Mark J. Nelson
>>>> <m...@anadrome.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Frances Hocutt <fhoc...@wikimedia.org> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One change that could address the latter incentive is
>>> to change the
>>>>>> defaults on MediaWiki so that masculine grammatical
>>> gender is not the
>>>>>> default for new users. It could be randomly assigned,
>>> and then some men
>>>>> as
>>>>>> well as some women would have the incentive to set
>>> their gender
>>>>> preferences.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's how it currently works, according to the manual,
>>> with the default
>>>>> gender set to 'unknown':
>>>>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDefaultUserOptions
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if that's a recent change, or what's in
>>> effect on
>>>>> Wikimedia's own wikis, though.
>>>>
>>>> I'm aware that it defaults to "unknown". My
>>>> understanding--and please correct me if I'm wrong--
>>>> is that an "unknown" user in a language where
>>>> personal nouns are gendered will always display
>>>> the masculine form (i.e. Usuario for a user of
>>>> unknown gender on es.wp). So, a male user doesn't
>>>> need to change his gender in preferences in order
>>>> to be described accurately where a female user
>>>> would need to set her gender in order to be
>>>> described as "Usuaria". Hence, different
>>>> incentives, and ones that could be addressed with
>>>> different default behavior for an "unknown" user.
>>>>
>>>> -Frances
>>> ------- End of Original Message -------
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
_______________________________________________
Wiki-research-l mailing list
Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
