This is something that people can natter over endlessly. The question is to the WMF board and management. These are the people who can authorize action or not. Anything else is just talk.
Again - what discussions has the WMF had, at the corporate decision-making level, about taking legal action against companies that advertise WP editing services and that have no evidence of disclosure as required under the ToU? Thanks. On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > Good points, Gnangarra. I started to write out a reply before realizing > that maybe I would give ideas to our adversaries, so I'll wait here for > Legal to talk. Perhaps some of us can continue this conversation behind > closed doors. > > Pine > > > On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I think it would be nice for a more direct input from the WMF over those > > not following the Terms of use. > > > > I see some potential pitfalls, even in chasing companies that charge for > > content; > > > > - would this draw WMF into a legal editorial position > > - would it drive them to further hide their activities > > - what would damage would be done if a court says its ok for a > > company/individual to control its image even on Wikipedia. we already > > deal > > with the EUs right to vanish > > > > sometimes its better to not open the can. I think a lot more discussion > > over the implications and impact is needed unfortunately some of that can > > only be behind closed doors it going to need community trust(something I > > think isnt all there at the moment), before asking the WMF legal to > pick a > > fight with anyone. > > > > On 2 January 2017 at 08:52, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > (: I think that Legal could at least describe in general terms what > they > > > are currently doing and have plans to do in the near future. > > > > > > If it turns out that the answers are "we aren't doing much and we > aren't > > > planning to do more", then yes, asking the higher-ups to do something > > about > > > this sounds like a good idea. By the way, I think the timing for this > > > discussion is good, because WMF should be in the early stages of > > > formulating the 2017-2018 annual plan. > > > > > > Happy new year! > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Jytdog at Wikipedia < > > jytdogte...@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Pine, thanks for your reply, but Legal will not do anything like this > > > > unless they are instructed by management. That is why I directed my > > > > question to the board and management. > > > > > > > > I've asked at Jimbo's talk page (bad timing, archived over the > > holidays, > > > > will repost) and at Katherine's WP talk page. > > > > > > > > Am very interested to hear from the board and/or WMF management on > > this. > > > > > > > > Jytdog > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:50:07 -0800 > > > > > From: Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, > > > > > Wikimedia Legal <le...@wikimedia.org> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies > that > > > > > offer paid editing services > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > <CAF=dyJhC8UqxkOY9FG9diGyobdgbbQaK_ > > > +M=m9E5Bo3aysPAOw@mail.gmail. > > > > > com> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > > > > > > > Forwarding to Legal. I'm aware of the general problem of > undisclosed > > > COI > > > > > editing, and agree that there should be some enforcement of this, > > > > > particularly given that WMF wants to use Wikipedia's NPOV and RS > > > policies > > > > > as part of WMF's marketing. I also wonder if WMF might be able to > > > recover > > > > > the costs of enforcement expenses somehow, perhaps by including a > > > > statement > > > > > in the TOS that says that people and their employers who engage in > > > > certain > > > > > types of undisclosed COI editing must (1) reimburse WMF for > attorney > > > > fees, > > > > > court fees, and other related costs of investigations and > > enforcement, > > > > and > > > > > (2) forfeit all revenue from their related activities to WMF. My > > guess > > > is > > > > > that significant financial penalties would be a bigger deterrent > than > > > > > name-and-shame and cease-and-desist letters. > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 03:50:03 -0500 > > > > > From: Jytdog at Wikipedia <jytdogte...@gmail.com> > > > > > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that > > offer > > > > > paid editing services > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > <CAAOzcj3cLaJOhvV6LvtqPTtULdj+9Ccanmht7EJQVLv+Lqa=Ww@mail. > > > > > gmail.com> > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > > > > > > > I am interested to learn if WMF management or the board has > discussed > > > > > taking legal action against companies that offer services to edit > > > > Wikipedia > > > > > and that have no on-Wiki presence disclosing their edits (in en-WP > at > > > > > least) per the Terms of Use. We all know the companies and their > > > > websites, > > > > > where they use the Wikipedia name, etc. I have looked and never > > found > > > > > disclosure by any of those companies in en-WP. I have looked and > > found > > > > no > > > > > public evidence of WMF legal engaging with these companies, other > > than > > > > > Wiki-PR. > > > > > > > > > > Some en-Wiki editors recently identified a long-term paid editor > and > > > > > brought the matter to ANI: thread is here > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia: > > > > > Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=757170150# > > > > > Earflaps_-_accusations_of_being_an_undisclosed_paid_ > > > > > editor_and_a_sock_puppet>. > > > > > This brought this whole thing to mind, and is something I have been > > > > wanting > > > > > to ask about. > > > > > > > > > > Three questions: > > > > > > > > > > Has this been discussed, and if so, what has/have the outcomes > been? > > > > > > > > > > Also, is there budget for WMF legal to take action against such > > > > companies? > > > > > > > > > > If not, would you all please consider that? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > GN. > > President Wikimedia Australia > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
