It is disturbing that you would even consider overriding the community in such a massive way.
On Aug 23, 2019, at 9:44 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote: > The board will be discussing this of course. We do not have a group > position at this point in time. > > J > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Jeff Hawke <geoffey.ha...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> James >> >> Thanks for that. As a member of the Board, would you clarify the Board's >> position on whether it is prepared to see the final Recommendations >> implemented irrespective of any disagreement from the community? >> >> Jeff >> >> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:05 PM James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I for one do not agree with Jan-Bart's prior position. >>> >>> James >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 4:40 AM Jeff Hawke <geoffey.ha...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Paulo, >>>> >>>> You suggest that "things will not get pretty if the Wikimedia community >>>> does not approve some of the recommendations". You may recall that >> just >>>> five years ago, Jan-Bart de Vreede, then chair of the WMF Board, >>> expressed >>>> the opinion >>>> >>>> >>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&diff=prev&oldid=9585319 >>>> over >>>> a much less dramatic change. >>>> >>>>> All of this is going to require change, change that might not be >>>> acceptable to some of you. I hope that all of you will be a part of >> this >>>> next step in our evolution. But I understand that if you decide to >> take a >>>> wiki-break, that might be the way things have to be. Even so, you have >> to >>>> let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step >>> when >>>> needed. I can only hope that your break is temporary, and that you will >>>> return when the time is right. >>>> >>>> I presume this is a good summary of the WMF position today. >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:06 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < >>>> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> If I've well understood the timeline, all input from the Wikimedia >>>>> community ceases in mid September. Then it's all defined by the WGs >>> 8and >>>>> their advisors), and eventually decided upon by the BoT around >>> December. >>>>> Therefore, after 15 September or so, the Wikimedia community will >> only >>> be >>>>> dealing with those recommendations again when they are already in the >>>>> process of implementation. >>>>> >>>>> It's quite easy to predict that things will not get pretty if the >>>> Wikimedia >>>>> community does not approve some of the recommendations that pass all >>> the >>>>> way till implementation phase. >>>>> >>>>> Paulo >>>>> >>>>> Nicole Ebber <nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quinta, >>>>> 22/08/2019 >>>>> à(s) 11:58: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your engagement and input. It’s been great seeing so >>> much >>>>>> attention on movement strategy and collaborative efforts for >> building >>>> our >>>>>> future. Here are a couple of follow up responses and >> clarifications. >>>>>> >>>>>> DRAFTS >>>>>> As pointed out in my previous email, the documents we recently >> shared >>>> are >>>>>> recommendation drafts. They are not final, and not complete, but >>>> working >>>>>> documents that are currently being refined by the working groups. >>> Some >>>>>> answers still read like stubs that are longing for further >>> development, >>>>>> others are very detailed and will become more focused over the next >>> few >>>>>> weeks. We still decided to publish everything at once, to give >>>> everyone a >>>>>> full picture of the variety of topics and offer an insight into >>>> multiple >>>>>> progress levels. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would also like to reiterate that movement values, priorities and >>>>>> community conversation processes are high on our radar. A >>>> recommendation >>>>> to >>>>>> change the existing license model, for example, will not just go >>>> through >>>>> a >>>>>> quick approval process, but lead to a deeper exploration into the >>>>> reasoning >>>>>> behind it: What problems are we trying to tackle, and what could be >>>> ways >>>>> to >>>>>> mitigate them? Such recommendation would then rather suggest to >> look >>>> into >>>>>> different measures to ensure indigenous knowledge is included in >> the >>>>>> Wikimedia ecosystem, deploy research and further consultation, >>> instead >>>> of >>>>>> rushing to a quick fix. >>>>>> >>>>>> INTEGRATION >>>>>> The working groups are taking input that they gathered at Wikimania >>> and >>>>> via >>>>>> different movement channels and incorporating it into the next >>>> iteration >>>>> of >>>>>> their recommendations. These documents will then serve as a basis >> for >>>>>> harmonization across working groups. >>>>>> >>>>>> The input that we are gathering comes in on different levels. Some >> of >>>> it >>>>>> targets structural level changes or emphasizes specific principles >> or >>>>>> values, while other feedback is more on the programmatic side or >>>> already >>>>>> addressing implementation. Structural input will continue to be >>>>> considered >>>>>> in forthcoming iterations of the recommendations. Programmatic >> input >>>> will >>>>>> be documented and taken forward to inform the implementation. >>>>>> >>>>>> TIMELINE >>>>>> We wanted to get the English drafts out as soon as possible and the >>>>>> translations on a rolling basis, so that Wikimania participants >> could >>>>> read >>>>>> and prepare to engage in person. Over the next few weeks, we will >> do >>>>>> targeted, public outreach to online project communities in multiple >>>>>> languages. We are soliciting feedback to shape the overall >> direction >>> of >>>>> the >>>>>> recommendations through mid-September. Working Groups are already >>>> working >>>>>> on identifying gaps and overlaps with other groups to prepare for >>>>>> harmonization. >>>>>> >>>>>> At the harmonization sprint in Tunis on 20-22 September, we will >>> bring >>>> 3 >>>>>> representatives from each Working Group together to work to >> develop a >>>>> more >>>>>> coherent set of recommendations. The group will be supported by >>>>>> facilitators and external advice, as well as the core team. We have >>>> also >>>>>> invited María Sefidari, Katherine Maher, Ryan Merkley, Valerie >>> D’Costa >>>>>> (Wikimedia Foundation) and Abraham Taherivand (Wikimedia >> Deutschland) >>>> to >>>>>> the sprint. They contribute expertise and experience from their >> work >>>> and >>>>>> leadership in the movement and beyond. They will be active >> listeners >>>> and >>>>>> can challenge recommendations by pointing out risks and >> consequences >>> on >>>>> the >>>>>> organizational and movement level. They also participate as the >>>>>> representatives of organizations that may be impacted by the >>>>>> recommendations. Involving them early is important so they can >>>> anticipate >>>>>> any possible changes for their staff and programs, and plan for >>>>>> implementation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our aim is to release recommendations in November 2019, and present >>>> them >>>>> to >>>>>> the Board of Trustees for approval in December. We will need the >>> legal >>>>>> authority of the board for some of the recommendations, while >> others >>>> will >>>>>> then be further delegated to other community mechanisms and >>> structures >>>>> for >>>>>> approval or further consultation.[1] There will be additional >> public >>>>>> consultation activities around implementation that will be >> discussed >>>> and >>>>>> owned across the movement. >>>>>> >>>>>> WORKING GROUPS >>>>>> We have chosen the working group model to ensure that the process >>> that >>>>>> embarks to make significant changes to our movement structures is >>> owned >>>>> by >>>>>> the community. Members of the nine working group were selected by a >>>>>> steering committee and the groups were established in July 2019.[2] >>>> Group >>>>>> members come from different parts of the movement, e.g. from >>> different >>>>>> regions and languages, from individual contributors and organized >>>> groups, >>>>>> and with different volunteer and staff roles, incl. Wikimedia >>>> Foundation >>>>>> staff and board. >>>>>> >>>>>> The groups are doing an amazing job. With many of them being >>>> volunteers, >>>>> or >>>>>> doing this work on top of their regular jobs, creating the draft >>>>>> recommendations is a huge achievement. They first needed to form, >>> storm >>>>> and >>>>>> norm as a group and figure out how to best work together across >> time >>>>> zones, >>>>>> languages, and contexts. They then took a deep dive into the >>> substance >>>>> and >>>>>> identified the scope of their work and the specific questions to >>> tackle >>>>> for >>>>>> us as a movement to advance in our strategic direction. The >>> development >>>>> of >>>>>> recommendations has started in spring this year, and – aside from >>> many >>>>>> online calls, asynchronous work and scarce in-person meetings – >>>> included >>>>>> incorporating community conversations and external expertise. It is >>>> only >>>>> to >>>>>> the hard work of these groups that we finally have something >> tangible >>>> in >>>>>> front of us that we can all react to and help further improve to >>> build >>>>> our >>>>>> future together. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please join us in thanking, celebrating and supporting them, rather >>>> than >>>>>> rushing to conclusions or arguing over details. Please contribute >> in >>>>> good >>>>>> faith, and in a constructive way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if you have further questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>> Nicole >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_2018_-_Board_of_Trustees_participation_in_the_Movement_Strategy_Process >>>>>> [2] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Procedures >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 13:13, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And this is the core problem of the whole process (which has been >>>>> pointed >>>>>>> out by multiple people from the very beginning) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> Yaroslav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Jeff Hawke < >>> geoffey.ha...@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 7:41 PM Andy Mabbett < >>>>>> a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 09:55, Jeff Hawke < >>>> geoffey.ha...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the WG then collate them and decide the final form of the >>>>>>>>>> recommendations, to be implemented by the WMF >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This seems to be missing a rather crucial intermediate step; >>> the >>>>> one >>>>>>>>> where the recommendations are accepted, or not, by the wider >>>>>> Wikimedia >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That step is not mentioned at >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Frequently_asked_questions#What_steps_will_take_place_in_the_next_few_months_to_put_a_decision-making_process_in_place >>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jeff >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Nicole Ebber >>>>>> Adviser International Relations >>>>>> Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy >>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin >>>>>> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 >>>>>> https://wikimedia.de >>>>>> >>>>>> Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der >>>>> Menschheit >>>>>> teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns dabei! >>>>>> https://spenden.wikimedia.de >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens >> e. >>> V. >>>>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts >> Berlin-Charlottenburg >>>>> unter >>>>>> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt >>> für >>>>>> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> James Heilman >>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
