@ Benjamin I have never said that I would "consider overriding the community in such a massive way". What I have said is that I hope the wider community will engage with and provide feedback to the core group who is working on developing the strategy. Much of the draft is really good, some requires more discussion and some adjustments.
James On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 11:12 PM Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminik...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > It is disturbing that you would even consider overriding the community in > such a massive way. > > > > On Aug 23, 2019, at 9:44 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > The board will be discussing this of course. We do not have a group > > position at this point in time. > > > > J > > > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Jeff Hawke <geoffey.ha...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> James > >> > >> Thanks for that. As a member of the Board, would you clarify the > Board's > >> position on whether it is prepared to see the final Recommendations > >> implemented irrespective of any disagreement from the community? > >> > >> Jeff > >> > >> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:05 PM James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> I for one do not agree with Jan-Bart's prior position. > >>> > >>> James > >>> > >>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 4:40 AM Jeff Hawke <geoffey.ha...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Paulo, > >>>> > >>>> You suggest that "things will not get pretty if the Wikimedia > community > >>>> does not approve some of the recommendations". You may recall that > >> just > >>>> five years ago, Jan-Bart de Vreede, then chair of the WMF Board, > >>> expressed > >>>> the opinion > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&diff=prev&oldid=9585319 > >>>> over > >>>> a much less dramatic change. > >>>> > >>>>> All of this is going to require change, change that might not be > >>>> acceptable to some of you. I hope that all of you will be a part of > >> this > >>>> next step in our evolution. But I understand that if you decide to > >> take a > >>>> wiki-break, that might be the way things have to be. Even so, you have > >> to > >>>> let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step > >>> when > >>>> needed. I can only hope that your break is temporary, and that you > will > >>>> return when the time is right. > >>>> > >>>> I presume this is a good summary of the WMF position today. > >>>> > >>>> Jeff > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:06 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < > >>>> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> If I've well understood the timeline, all input from the Wikimedia > >>>>> community ceases in mid September. Then it's all defined by the WGs > >>> 8and > >>>>> their advisors), and eventually decided upon by the BoT around > >>> December. > >>>>> Therefore, after 15 September or so, the Wikimedia community will > >> only > >>> be > >>>>> dealing with those recommendations again when they are already in the > >>>>> process of implementation. > >>>>> > >>>>> It's quite easy to predict that things will not get pretty if the > >>>> Wikimedia > >>>>> community does not approve some of the recommendations that pass all > >>> the > >>>>> way till implementation phase. > >>>>> > >>>>> Paulo > >>>>> > >>>>> Nicole Ebber <nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quinta, > >>>>> 22/08/2019 > >>>>> à(s) 11:58: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Dear all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you for your engagement and input. It’s been great seeing so > >>> much > >>>>>> attention on movement strategy and collaborative efforts for > >> building > >>>> our > >>>>>> future. Here are a couple of follow up responses and > >> clarifications. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> DRAFTS > >>>>>> As pointed out in my previous email, the documents we recently > >> shared > >>>> are > >>>>>> recommendation drafts. They are not final, and not complete, but > >>>> working > >>>>>> documents that are currently being refined by the working groups. > >>> Some > >>>>>> answers still read like stubs that are longing for further > >>> development, > >>>>>> others are very detailed and will become more focused over the next > >>> few > >>>>>> weeks. We still decided to publish everything at once, to give > >>>> everyone a > >>>>>> full picture of the variety of topics and offer an insight into > >>>> multiple > >>>>>> progress levels. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would also like to reiterate that movement values, priorities and > >>>>>> community conversation processes are high on our radar. A > >>>> recommendation > >>>>> to > >>>>>> change the existing license model, for example, will not just go > >>>> through > >>>>> a > >>>>>> quick approval process, but lead to a deeper exploration into the > >>>>> reasoning > >>>>>> behind it: What problems are we trying to tackle, and what could be > >>>> ways > >>>>> to > >>>>>> mitigate them? Such recommendation would then rather suggest to > >> look > >>>> into > >>>>>> different measures to ensure indigenous knowledge is included in > >> the > >>>>>> Wikimedia ecosystem, deploy research and further consultation, > >>> instead > >>>> of > >>>>>> rushing to a quick fix. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> INTEGRATION > >>>>>> The working groups are taking input that they gathered at Wikimania > >>> and > >>>>> via > >>>>>> different movement channels and incorporating it into the next > >>>> iteration > >>>>> of > >>>>>> their recommendations. These documents will then serve as a basis > >> for > >>>>>> harmonization across working groups. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The input that we are gathering comes in on different levels. Some > >> of > >>>> it > >>>>>> targets structural level changes or emphasizes specific principles > >> or > >>>>>> values, while other feedback is more on the programmatic side or > >>>> already > >>>>>> addressing implementation. Structural input will continue to be > >>>>> considered > >>>>>> in forthcoming iterations of the recommendations. Programmatic > >> input > >>>> will > >>>>>> be documented and taken forward to inform the implementation. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> TIMELINE > >>>>>> We wanted to get the English drafts out as soon as possible and the > >>>>>> translations on a rolling basis, so that Wikimania participants > >> could > >>>>> read > >>>>>> and prepare to engage in person. Over the next few weeks, we will > >> do > >>>>>> targeted, public outreach to online project communities in multiple > >>>>>> languages. We are soliciting feedback to shape the overall > >> direction > >>> of > >>>>> the > >>>>>> recommendations through mid-September. Working Groups are already > >>>> working > >>>>>> on identifying gaps and overlaps with other groups to prepare for > >>>>>> harmonization. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At the harmonization sprint in Tunis on 20-22 September, we will > >>> bring > >>>> 3 > >>>>>> representatives from each Working Group together to work to > >> develop a > >>>>> more > >>>>>> coherent set of recommendations. The group will be supported by > >>>>>> facilitators and external advice, as well as the core team. We have > >>>> also > >>>>>> invited María Sefidari, Katherine Maher, Ryan Merkley, Valerie > >>> D’Costa > >>>>>> (Wikimedia Foundation) and Abraham Taherivand (Wikimedia > >> Deutschland) > >>>> to > >>>>>> the sprint. They contribute expertise and experience from their > >> work > >>>> and > >>>>>> leadership in the movement and beyond. They will be active > >> listeners > >>>> and > >>>>>> can challenge recommendations by pointing out risks and > >> consequences > >>> on > >>>>> the > >>>>>> organizational and movement level. They also participate as the > >>>>>> representatives of organizations that may be impacted by the > >>>>>> recommendations. Involving them early is important so they can > >>>> anticipate > >>>>>> any possible changes for their staff and programs, and plan for > >>>>>> implementation. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Our aim is to release recommendations in November 2019, and present > >>>> them > >>>>> to > >>>>>> the Board of Trustees for approval in December. We will need the > >>> legal > >>>>>> authority of the board for some of the recommendations, while > >> others > >>>> will > >>>>>> then be further delegated to other community mechanisms and > >>> structures > >>>>> for > >>>>>> approval or further consultation.[1] There will be additional > >> public > >>>>>> consultation activities around implementation that will be > >> discussed > >>>> and > >>>>>> owned across the movement. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> WORKING GROUPS > >>>>>> We have chosen the working group model to ensure that the process > >>> that > >>>>>> embarks to make significant changes to our movement structures is > >>> owned > >>>>> by > >>>>>> the community. Members of the nine working group were selected by a > >>>>>> steering committee and the groups were established in July 2019.[2] > >>>> Group > >>>>>> members come from different parts of the movement, e.g. from > >>> different > >>>>>> regions and languages, from individual contributors and organized > >>>> groups, > >>>>>> and with different volunteer and staff roles, incl. Wikimedia > >>>> Foundation > >>>>>> staff and board. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The groups are doing an amazing job. With many of them being > >>>> volunteers, > >>>>> or > >>>>>> doing this work on top of their regular jobs, creating the draft > >>>>>> recommendations is a huge achievement. They first needed to form, > >>> storm > >>>>> and > >>>>>> norm as a group and figure out how to best work together across > >> time > >>>>> zones, > >>>>>> languages, and contexts. They then took a deep dive into the > >>> substance > >>>>> and > >>>>>> identified the scope of their work and the specific questions to > >>> tackle > >>>>> for > >>>>>> us as a movement to advance in our strategic direction. The > >>> development > >>>>> of > >>>>>> recommendations has started in spring this year, and – aside from > >>> many > >>>>>> online calls, asynchronous work and scarce in-person meetings – > >>>> included > >>>>>> incorporating community conversations and external expertise. It is > >>>> only > >>>>> to > >>>>>> the hard work of these groups that we finally have something > >> tangible > >>>> in > >>>>>> front of us that we can all react to and help further improve to > >>> build > >>>>> our > >>>>>> future together. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Please join us in thanking, celebrating and supporting them, rather > >>>> than > >>>>>> rushing to conclusions or arguing over details. Please contribute > >> in > >>>>> good > >>>>>> faith, and in a constructive way. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Let me know if you have further questions. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Best wishes, > >>>>>> Nicole > >>>>>> > >>>>>> [1] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_2018_-_Board_of_Trustees_participation_in_the_Movement_Strategy_Process > >>>>>> [2] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Procedures > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 13:13, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> And this is the core problem of the whole process (which has been > >>>>> pointed > >>>>>>> out by multiple people from the very beginning) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers > >>>>>>> Yaroslav > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Jeff Hawke < > >>> geoffey.ha...@gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Andy > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 7:41 PM Andy Mabbett < > >>>>>> a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 09:55, Jeff Hawke < > >>>> geoffey.ha...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> the WG then collate them and decide the final form of the > >>>>>>>>>> recommendations, to be implemented by the WMF > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> This seems to be missing a rather crucial intermediate step; > >>> the > >>>>> one > >>>>>>>>> where the recommendations are accepted, or not, by the wider > >>>>>> Wikimedia > >>>>>>>>> community. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That step is not mentioned at > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Frequently_asked_questions#What_steps_will_take_place_in_the_next_few_months_to_put_a_decision-making_process_in_place > >>>>>>>> ? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Jeff > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> ?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Nicole Ebber > >>>>>> Adviser International Relations > >>>>>> Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy > >>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > >>>>>> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 > >>>>>> https://wikimedia.de > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der > >>>>> Menschheit > >>>>>> teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns dabei! > >>>>>> https://spenden.wikimedia.de > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens > >> e. > >>> V. > >>>>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts > >> Berlin-Charlottenburg > >>>>> unter > >>>>>> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt > >>> für > >>>>>> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > >> ?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>>> Unsubscribe: > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> James Heilman > >>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > -- > > James Heilman > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
