If maximizing effectiveness was the only concern, we could just block all the users.
-- Brian On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 8:12 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkald...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > Are you suggesting that ArbCom does a good job of maintaining a collegial, > harassment-free environment on English Wikipedia? Just wanted to double-check > ;) > >> On Aug 8, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Isarra Yos <zhoris...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On other projects, we have community-elected groups among whom we see >> oversight in the form of new members upon subsequent elections who can audit >> the backlogs, and who conduct their primary functions in the open and issue >> clear statements when a matter does indeed merit not discussing openly, >> using their discretion as to when to apply privacy and similar concerns >> specifically. Generally speaking, most users actually trust their discretion >> in those matters. >> >> Nothing about /this/ particular issue appears to merit any such concern, and >> because none of the above holds here, either, I can't say I necessarily >> trust this committee to make that call to begin with. >> >> -I >> >>> On 08/08/18 19:35, Ryan Kaldari wrote: >>> With all the clamoring for transparency, has anyone considered the privacy >>> implications for publicly documenting every complaint against a Phabricator >>> user? That seems like it could have just as much of a chilling effect on >>> participation, if not more, than the idea that you can be blocked for being >>> rude. >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 12:05 PM Yair Rand <yyairr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I very much agree that profanity should not be used around Wikimedia, but >>>> there's a large gap between "things we ideally wouldn't have", "things an >>>> employee of a Wikimedia institution should be fired for", and "things a >>>> volunteer contributor should be blocked for" (in that order). (The acronym >>>> "wtf" has been used 532 times on Phabricator according to search results >>>> (including some by the relevant CoCC members), and 10 times fully spelled >>>> out.) >>>> >>>> Just to remind everyone of some background, the CoC came into existence >>>> after having a policy tag edit-warred onto it after a non-consensus-backed >>>> discussion regarding a particular section was self-closed as consensus >>>> reached for the entire document, attempting to establish an unaccountable >>>> and secretive Committee that may ban users for any of a number of extremely >>>> vaguely worded violations including "attempting to circumvent a decision of >>>> the Committee", appoints its own members (none of which were >>>> community-selected), can veto any changes to the CoC, and recently claimed >>>> absolute authority over all development-oriented spaces on all Wikimedia >>>> projects (including VPT, gadget/script/module talk pages) on a "consensus" >>>> of a single user. It's quite clearly a completely illegitimate institution. >>>> >>>> But leaving all that aside, this was a terrible decision. I recommend an >>>> immediate unblock. >>>> >>>> -- Yair Rand >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2018-08-08 13:02 GMT-04:00 David Cuenca Tudela <dacu...@gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> In general I would prefer to keep vulgar language out of the projects, as >>>>> it doesn't bring anything positive. >>>>> Research shows that swearing causes stress [1], and there are many ways >>>> of >>>>> showing dissatisfaction without using coarse language. >>>>> >>>>> For instance, I would appreciate if there would be more interest in using >>>>> Nonviolent Communication, as it is more effective in getting the message >>>>> across than with negativity. >>>>> Introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-129JLTjkQ >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Micru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [1] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/ >>>>> journal.pone.0022341 >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 5:53 PM Bináris <wikipo...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> That's what I called a very first world problem. >>>>>> This happens when American culture and behavioral standard is extended >>>> to >>>>>> an international community. >>>>>> It is not rally polite to write that F-thing (how many times has it >>>> been >>>>>> written directly or abbreviated or indirectly in this very >>>> discussion?). >>>>>> But to ban a member of the technical community from the working >>>>> environment >>>>>> is really harmful. >>>>>> Although we do block people from editing Wikipedia, too, but we do it >>>>>> publicly, clearly, comparably, and by the rules of the local community, >>>>> not >>>>>> by hidden rules of admin board. And not for one ugly word. >>>>>> This secret banning undermines the community, and therefore it is >>>>>> destructive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, as code of conduxt itself was discussed here, the coc >>>> file >>>>>> case was discussed here a few weeks ago, and this is the place where >>>> most >>>>>> Phabricatos users communicate, this is a good place to discuss this >>>>> case, >>>>>> too. Publicity is good. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list >>>>>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Etiamsi omnes, ego non >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list >>>>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikitech-l mailing list >>>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikitech-l mailing list >>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikitech-l mailing list >> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
