Nope- and that's my point. There is very little "sustained" anything in our environment yet- every 15 minutes of every day on every AP is arguably different given the ebbs and flows of our current user base and their network behaviors. We have done silly "tests" like have half-dozen folks all on the same AP all watching Joost or Hulu, but again, some end up on 11a, some end up on 11g, and nobody needs more than 500 kbps for their stream so things tend to feel a-OK. We do occasional bandwidth tests, move huge files around, etc as verification of throughput for fun and t-shooting, but given the nature of users moving from location to location (outside of the dorms) and what they are doing, all we'd be doing right now is coming up with a baseline that may or may not be relevant an hour later as the environment changes.
Have never felt the need to prove or disprove manufacturer performance claims during the course of daily business, (except when doing product reviews for NWC). That may certainly change as our applications change, but right now the general morass flows along nicely, and we are not staffed to go looking for problems that otherwise aren't revealed in monitoring or user complaints. WCS does OK for giving some stats- the stuff your asking about would best be measured in the dorms in the evening, but there are also no spaces that imitate auditoriums in the dorms, as we are very dense so we rarely see more than 10 users per AP in residence halls, even when 500 users are on in a given hall. With WCS, the reporting can be aggregated different ways depending on what you are looking for, but unfortunately some reports are either completely unreliable or take so long to generate that you stop looking after a while. But in fairness, some reports do work fine- but again, you don't tend to look more than occasionally unless there is the perception of trouble. The triggered reports are seldom kicked in. We have some high-level trends of overall usage peaks and valleys, but at the AP-level, the variances are huge depending on what's going on in that spot on any given time and day. Clear as mud, no? -Lee -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Bulk - iNAME Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:49 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] many clients, one room Thanks for that input. Can you comment on the peak level of sustained throughput, per room; per AP? Are these measured over 5 minute intervals, or some other kind of measurement? I suspect that casual use may in fact work fine in dense environments. Frank -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:07 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] many clients, one room Many moons ago when we used Cisco IOS APs for our new WLAN, we would create picocells (knowing that the term means different things to different people) by turning down the power to 1 mW, and also adding an attenuator between AP and antenna to further restrict output power. Then we'd basically fill large auditoriums with 3-5 of these, depending on the size of the venue. It worked wonderfully for supporting a couple of hundred "casual users" on 802.11b and then g. Fast forward to LWAPP. We still provision multiple APs per large auditorium, but these rooms are seldom islands- they also are typically surrounded by other APs in adjacent areas(laterally, above, and below) where they further share cells. It was a leap of faith letting RRM decide on power and channel, but so far we have yet to be burned (that we know of). But... we do not "do" voice over the WLAN formally. Or multicast over wireless. And the typical Internet-delivered video stream for the "casual/typical" client tends to be around 500 kbps, so we're not feeling a lot of pain even when 150 users are on a small handful of a/g APs, and thus far most traffic is to the Internet where we have per-user caps anyway. Then factor in that 1/3 of these are actually using 11a and the remainder are on 11g on our dual-band APs. And at least half of all are using some version of CCX... And we still have the occasional 11b device pop up (around 2% of all of our 5000+ simultaneous clients), and we let them. And there are sometimes classroom response systems in use in 2.4 GHz in these same spaces. It gets fuzzy in our "real world", but we rarely (as in almost never) hear of dissatisfaction with the WLAN throughput. In fact, as silly as it sounds, we get written compliments from visitors on occasion on how well our WLAN performs. Long winded answer to a simple question- but we are basically applying simple common-sense design for capacity and mostly ignoring much of the hysteria and hype that comes from vendors volleying the finer points of how they one-up each other on wireless, and doing just fine (for now) given that our day-to-day "lab" is reality. -Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Bulk - iNAME Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:49 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] many clients, one room Can anyone on this list comment on their "dense" experiences with vendors other than Meru (and Xirrus)? I know I may appear to be buoying Meru in this thread, but it's only because I haven't heard a higher-ed using another vendor talk about their own good experiences. Regards, Frank -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:52 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] many clients, one room John's comments reflect almost exactly what I heard two years ago. Would love to hear on this list from other shops (Aruba, Cisco, Colubris, Symbol, Trapeze, Symbol) what their experiences and configurations are in similar circumstances. Frank -----Original Message----- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:48 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] many clients, one room Hi Clint, The AP208 have 2 radios, 11a & 11b/g. We have the laptops set up to prefer 11a, so the bulk of the connections are 11a. MathCAD is installed locally on the laptops, but the size of the student files vary - probably comparable to a Powerpoint presentation. We used to do this with Cisco AP1200s & had constant complaints. No more. We had the same problem at exam times at our Law School. No more. Like I said, we are very happy with the Meru products. HTH -John Ringgold, Clint wrote: > Can you please give us more information in terms of how the APs and > Laptops were setup. > > I'm no math major and on a bad day I have trouble adding (don't laugh). > Anyway, I'm just wondering if it was setup so you have > 54+54+11+11=130/250(users)=.52 or 54+54+11=119/250(users)=.476. I am > not implying a thing. I'm asking this just for my clarification. > > It sounds like the software may have been on the laptop and/or only the > answer or very small packets were saved to/from a server. If it is > "designed" to work with little bandwidth (like Citrix) then that is > great. I'm just saying it is a difference. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Center > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:28 AM > To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU > Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] many clients, one room > > Hi Don, > > We are a Meru customer & we've had great success with their system in > our large lecture rooms. On Friday, we had 250 Engineering students > taking an exam, which required MathCAD, on 2 Meru AP208s. The exam ran > flawlessly. > > HTH > > -John > > > Don Wright wrote: >> I know this has been talked about and debated on this list > before, >> but what are people doing today when faced with a request like the > need >> "for 100 students simultaneously downloading a powerpoint > presentation". >> Recently there was discussion on MCA vs. SCA vendors and how each >> handles this worst case scenario. Since we are an MCA (Aruba), I'd > be >> interested in hearing what others have done or are planning for large >> classrooms and auditoriums. >> >> -- >> Don Wright >> Network Technologies Group >> Brown University >> >> wire --- less, wi-fi ))) more >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this > EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > > ********** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent > Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > > ********** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
