Mike, My personal opinion is... in 5Ghz, Wimax is not the ideal solution. In 5.3-4 G, the allowable power is not high enough. In 5.8G, there is to much noise, from traditional legacy gear. We proved that in our trials 4 years ago, beta testing Aperto, pre-Wimax. It wasn't affordable to deploy a small channel and waste polarity with diversity, based on tower colo costs. In DC for example, we were lucky to get 1.5mbps total throughout, on a 6Mhz channel capable of 16-20mbps in the lab. Diversity helps get around NLOS, but it also prevents muting out interference on the non-needed polarity. In DC, only Spatial diversity was viable, because Spatial diversity does not pickup out of polarity noise. But we found, polarity diversity is really what best helped get around NLOS. Many of the WiMax vendors are working towards 5.8Ghz platforms, but personally, I think these are really only ideal for deployments to new underserved areas. Its a different stroy in areas of low noise or low cost to colocate, where mobile/NLOS is the goal and not high capacity. Many will disagree with me, but that is my opinion. I personally think, Alvarions existing unlicensed VL or Newer less expensive line products are more preferred than their Wimax in the 5.8 band.
In 3.6, I think WiMax is needy for the advanced WiMax feature. Because it is virgin spectrum still. But it will be interesting to see how it all plays out, as more providers all try and use it in one area. My experience is of course based on old gear. The questions that I ask is whether the newer more advanced WiMax level gear has also added any new noise cancellation techniques to combine with diversity, so that diversity can be used more often, without a negative effect if noise exists on the other pol? The maximum benefit in gain was gained via receive diversity. A beam turning 90 deg out of pol could degrade over 20db, where as pol diverse signal transmitted only adds a db or so, only because the gain is contracdicted by the loss associated with splitting the signal. Transmit diversity does however, have other benefits, as we know with Mimo style designs, and beam steering technologies. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future > Who have you been getting information\pricing from on the Aperto and > Airspan > products? > > > ---------- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Booher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future > > >> comments inline. >> On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> >>> Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? >> >> Not to my knowedge. >>> >>> >>> Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription >>> on say a >>> 10 meg client? >> >> Certainly. >> >>> >>> >>> What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? >> >> Between 5-10k >> >>> >>> >>> What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? >> >> Between 5-10k >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jeff Booher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>> >>> >>>> Chuck, >>>> >>>> Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. >>>> >>>> Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz >>>> channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, >>>> there >>>> are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the >>>> licenseholders are. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: >>>> >>>>> Patrick, >>>>> Excellent point on channel sizes! >>>>> So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , >>>>> 5.X, 3.6 >>>>> (we are in a big exclusion zone.) >>>>> I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. >>>>> Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? >>>>> Would it use the same channel sizes? >>>>> Would it help with range and capacity? >>>>> Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? >>>>> In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Chuck Profito >>>>> 209-988-7388 >>>>> CV-ACCESS, INC >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> Providing High Speed Broadband >>>>> to Rural Central California >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM >>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>>>> >>>>> Patrick, >>>>> If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, >>>>> what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: >>>>> 2 miles los? >>>>> 2 miles wooded? >>>>> 5 m los? >>>>> 5 m nlos? >>>>> 10 m los? >>>>> 10 m nlos >>>>> ?? >>>>> Is this a fair question? >>>>> >>>>> Chuck Profito >>>>> 209-988-7388 >>>>> CV-ACCESS, INC >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> Providing High Speed Broadband >>>>> to Rural Central California >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Patrick Leary >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>>>> >>>>> The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours >>>>> great >>>>> headaches. The stupid "70 miles 30 mbps" was the most absurd bit of >>>>> hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. >>>>> Meanwhile, Mo >>>>> Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) >>>>> was >>>>> trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public >>>>> sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the >>>>> expectations. I >>>>> did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. >>>>> >>>>> WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's >>>>> greatest >>>>> near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. >>>>> >>>>> Patrick >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>>>> >>>>> WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only >>>>>> partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree >>>>>> strongly >>>>> on >>>>>> the "WiMAX is dead" part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). >>>>>> >>>>>> The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong >>>>>> opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. >>>>>> >>>>>> Patrick >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>>>>> >>>>>> WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually >>>>>> true >>>>>> but >>>>>> emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies >>>>>> and >>>>>> technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited >>>>>> to >>>>>> compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will >>>>> never >>>>>> live >>>>>> up to the hype. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the >>>>> go. >>>>>> Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value >>>>>> driven >>>>>> customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value >>>>>> leader >>>>> for >>>>>> >>>>>> fixed wireless. technologies. >>>>>> >>>>>> 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more >>>>>> cell >>>>>> spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited >>>>>> amounts >>>>> of >>>>>> data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of >>>>>> the >>>>>> antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less >>>>>> gain >>>>>> than >>>>>> the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. >>>>>> Also >>>>>> there >>>>>> will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing >>>>>> TV >>>>>> stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> know if >>>>>> they get a special dispensation or what. >>>>>> >>>>>> All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That >>>>> will >>>>>> erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and >>>>> capital >>>>>> intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many >>>>>> folks >>>>>> prefer >>>>>> to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior >>>>>> customer >>>>>> service >>>>>> and support will always retain the customer. >>>>>> >>>>>> The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot >>>>>> and >>>>>> drop >>>>>> the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer >>>>>> base >>>>>> from >>>>>> DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well >>>>>> as >>>>>> they >>>>>> could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash >>>>>> situation >>>>>> from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) >>>>> from >>>>>> the >>>>>> other. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web >>>>>> development, >>>>>> OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell >>>>> opportunities. >>>>>> >>>>>> All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA >>>>> HDTV. >>>>>> OTA >>>>>> HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the >>>>>> value >>>>>> conscious customer. Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and >>>>> help >>>>>> folks get their analog TVs converted over. Less work than a WISP >>>>>> install >>>>>> and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer >>>>>> service. >>>>>> You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost >>>>> package. >>>>>> >>>>>> In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you >>>>>> will >>>>>> ride >>>>>> this horse until it dies. Perhaps other technologies will come >>>>>> along >>>>>> for us >>>>>> to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years. In 10 >>>>>> years, >>>>>> if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much. Pesky physics. >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> To: "WISPA List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Future >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 >>>>>>> years? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> AT&T is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of >>>>>>> town?) >>>>>>> Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of >>>>>>> town?) >>>>>>> Cable will be using DOCSIS 3 >>>>>>> 3G will gain more steam >>>>>>> WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market >>>>>>> 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big >>>>>> guys >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions >>>>>>> are. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to >>>>> avoid >>>>>> the >>>>>>> niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better >>>>>> services >>>>>>> with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly >>>>>>> TV >>>>>>> white spaces) and WiMAX. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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