How much does second order improve over none? Cost differences between none, second, and fourth?
---------- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity > So what does all the below mean in practice? Well, a typical > arrangement, at least for our customers, in the 2.5 GHz band is 3 > sectors of 4th order diversity. That means one chassis with 3 blades. > Each of the blades has 4 ports. All 4 ports are used. That translates > into three AU IDUs and 12 ODUs and 6 antennas dual pole antennas that > comprise the 3 sectors. > > Now you may be getting a sense of the complexity and why the question of > "How much for one AP to one sector?" is not really applicable since one > 4-port AU can feed a complete cell with 4 90 degree sectors, but that > same AU can scale to feed all its channels and capacity into a single > sector. > > With each added level of diversity, the translation is better link > budgets (less cells) with increased capacity. Fourth order diversity > over no diversity adds 12 dB up and 6 dB down in terms of improved link > budgets. This is not generally used to increase range so much as it is > to increase link reliability at range. > > Our expectation is that our 3.65 GHz deployments will mostly have a > standard configuration of 3 sectors with 2nd order diversity, except in > a high urban deployment (such as a Tower Stream type model), which is > more likely to have 4th order diversity to improve the range and number > of self-install CPE that can be deployed. > > Patrick Leary > AVP, Market Development > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Patrick Leary > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:05 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity > > Mike, et al, > > As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about > diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one > AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can > serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and > supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of > diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration: > > Single channel, no diversity - > This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed. > Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a > directional antenna. > > AU/IDU ODU Sector > +++++ +++++ +++++ > + + --+ O +--- + + > + O ---/ + + \---+ O + > + O + + O + + + > + O + +++++ + + > + O + +++++ > + + > +++++ > > > Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or > three or four channels. Example shows four channels - > > AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1 > Ch.1-4 > +++++ +++++ +++++ > + + --+ O +--- + + > + O ---/ + + \---+ O + > + O +-\ + O + + + > + O +-\\ +++++ + + > + O +-\\\ +++++ > + + \\\--ODU 2----sector antenna 2 > +++++ \\ > \\--ODU 3----sector antenna 3 > \ > \--ODU 4----sector antenna 4 > > > Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU > channels 1 & 2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a > common MAC and modem. > > AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 > Ch.1&2 Sector 1 > +++++ +++++ +++++ > + + --- O ---- + + > + O ---/ + + \---- O + > + O --\ + O + + + > + O + \ +++++ + + > + O + \ +++++ > + + \ both sectors cover same area > +++++ \ )))))) so both function as part of one > sector \ ODU 2 Antenna 2 > \Sector 1 > \+++++ +++++ > - O ---- + + > + + \---- O + > + O + + + > +++++ + + > +++++ > > Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space > and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas. > Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same > frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and > modem. > > AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 > Ch.1-4 Sector 1 (dual pole) > +++++ +++++ +++++ > + + --- O ---- + + > + O ---/ + + \---------- O + > + O --\ + O + /--- O + > + O --\\ +++++ / + + > + O --\\\ / +++++ both dual pole > antennas > + + \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2 Antenna 2 ))))) function together in > a > +++++ \\ (dual pole) single sector > \\--ODU 3/Sector 1---\ +++++ > \ \ + + > \--ODU 4/Sector 2--\ \-- O + > \--- O + > + + > +++++ > > > Patrick Leary > AVP, Market Development > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:18 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future > > Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? > > Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on > say a > 10 meg client? > > What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? > > What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? > > > ---------- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Booher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future > > >> Chuck, >> >> Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. >> >> Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz >> channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there >> are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the >> licenseholders are. >> >> >> >> - >> >> Jeff >> >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: >> >>> Patrick, >>> Excellent point on channel sizes! >>> So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , >>> 5.X, 3.6 >>> (we are in a big exclusion zone.) >>> I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. >>> Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? >>> Would it use the same channel sizes? >>> Would it help with range and capacity? >>> Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? >>> In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? >>> >>> >>> Chuck Profito >>> 209-988-7388 >>> CV-ACCESS, INC >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Providing High Speed Broadband >>> to Rural Central California >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On >>> Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO >>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM >>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>> >>> Patrick, >>> If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, >>> what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: >>> 2 miles los? >>> 2 miles wooded? >>> 5 m los? >>> 5 m nlos? >>> 10 m los? >>> 10 m nlos >>> ?? >>> Is this a fair question? >>> >>> Chuck Profito >>> 209-988-7388 >>> CV-ACCESS, INC >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Providing High Speed Broadband >>> to Rural Central California >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Patrick Leary >>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>> >>> The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours >>> great >>> headaches. The stupid "70 miles 30 mbps" was the most absurd bit of >>> hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. >>> Meanwhile, Mo >>> Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) >>> was >>> trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public >>> sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the >>> expectations. I >>> did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. >>> >>> WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's >>> greatest >>> near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. >>> >>> Patrick >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown >>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>> >>> WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>> >>> >>>> I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only >>>> partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree > strongly >>> on >>>> the "WiMAX is dead" part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). >>>> >>>> The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong >>>> opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. >>>> >>>> Patrick >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> On >>>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future >>>> >>>> WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually > true >>>> but >>>> emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies > and >>>> technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited >>>> to >>>> compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will >>> never >>>> live >>>> up to the hype. >>>> >>>> All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the >>> go. >>>> Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value >>>> driven >>>> customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader >>> for >>>> >>>> fixed wireless. technologies. >>>> >>>> 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more >>>> cell >>>> spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts >>> of >>>> data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of >>>> the >>>> antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain >>>> than >>>> the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also >>>> there >>>> will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV >>>> stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't >>>> know if >>>> they get a special dispensation or what. >>>> >>>> All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That >>> will >>>> erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and >>> capital >>>> intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many > folks >>>> prefer >>>> to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer >>>> service >>>> and support will always retain the customer. >>>> >>>> The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot > and >>>> drop >>>> the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer > base >>>> from >>>> DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well >>>> as >>>> they >>>> could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash >>>> situation >>>> from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) >>> from >>>> the >>>> other. >>>> >>>> In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web >>>> development, >>>> OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell >>> opportunities. >>>> >>>> All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA >>> HDTV. >>>> OTA >>>> HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value >>>> conscious customer. Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and >>> help >>>> folks get their analog TVs converted over. Less work than a WISP >>>> install >>>> and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer >>>> service. >>>> You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost >>> package. >>>> >>>> In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will >>>> ride >>>> this horse until it dies. Perhaps other technologies will come > along >>>> for us >>>> to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years. In 10 >>>> years, >>>> if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting. >>>> >>>> Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much. Pesky physics. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "WISPA List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM >>>> Subject: [WISPA] Future >>>> >>>> >>>>> What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 > years? >>>>> >>>>> AT&T is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?) >>>>> Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?) >>>>> Cable will be using DOCSIS 3 >>>>> 3G will gain more steam >>>>> WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market >>>>> 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big >>>> guys >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are. >>>>> >>>>> My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to >>> avoid >>>> the >>>>> niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better >>>> services >>>>> with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly >>>>> TV >>>>> white spaces) and WiMAX. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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