JAB? They probably have 50,000 subs by now. Canopy shop. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds
> Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. > > But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics that > back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large provider > market. > > What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest Urban > WISPs. They use Aperto. > What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one two > occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot of > Alvarion later on. > What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of > Trango > at one point. > What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. > What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he was > mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. > What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT > primarilly a Canopy shop. > > Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve in > compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and beyond. > But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. > > You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, most > all > of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of the > largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs to > now > buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting that > Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. > > I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a leap > frog > game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, > because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific application > on > this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well may > bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are new > products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 markets. > > And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's a > croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years later, > my > Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. > > I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had the > reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could > afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for > "small > operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering leader, > and > favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down the > path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps > capacities, > therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into > winning > business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and > doesn't > want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left that > can do it at near the same price point. > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > > >>I guess we need to define large... :-) >> >> You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over say >> 1000 >> customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in say >> 2006 >> on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and now >> they >> are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. >> >> I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I for >> one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and they >> all >> use Canopy... >> >> Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very >> wrong >> :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I >> apologize!) >> >> Daniel White >> 3-dB Networks >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> > the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason >>> >>> Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may use >>> Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. >>> >>> I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, Alvarion, >>> StarOS, etc. >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >>> >>> > Steve, >>> > >>> > I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our >>> > company >>> we >>> > are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of our >>> > success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an article >>> here >>> > about leasing that might change your mind. http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx >>> > >>> > Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it allows >>> you >>> > to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase your >>> > revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the >>> interest, >>> > but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your >>> vendor >>> > instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it better in >>> the >>> > article. >>> > >>> > Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that another >>> > WISP >>> > can >>> > replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is equipment >>> > related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an >>> 802.11a/b/g >>> > solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers were on >>> > KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really fast. >>> > We >>> > had >>> > many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been successful >>> > without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an AP. >>> > Our >>> > WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we hit >>> the >>> > limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo >>> network >>> > in >>> > 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that much >>> (its >>> > all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to it). >>> So >>> > while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and >>> > start >>> > over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason. >>> > >>> > My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't >>> > worth >>> > much anymore) >>> > >>> > Daniel White >>> > 3-dB Networks >>> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> On >>> >> Behalf Of Steve Barnes >>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM >>> >> To: WISPA General List >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >> >>> >> I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it so >>> >> that >>> >> the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. You >>> >> still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the ROI >>> >> takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease Co. >>> >> Can you help me with that one. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Steve >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> On >>> >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM >>> >> To: WISPA General List >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the >>> install >>> >> fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside down" >>> >> on >>> >> every new customer. >>> >> >>> >> Travis >>> >> Microserv >>> >> >>> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>> >> >>> >> You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 >>> >> subscribers >>> >> things will be a bit better. >>> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> >> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM >>> >> Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth >>> >> different >>> >> WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended >>> >> equipment >>> >> that is so often discussed on this list. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch >>> >> each >>> >> penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to >>> >> service the >>> >> clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other >>> >> that >>> >> what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 >>> >> towers with >>> >> 320 clients. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a >>> >> $59.99 Pro >>> >> Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn >>> >> off the >>> >> speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M >>> >> on any >>> >> of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS >>> >> Full >>> >> Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost >>> >> of with >>> >> another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to >>> >> achieve >>> >> 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. >>> >> What do >>> >> you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have >>> >> started you >>> >> service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have >>> >> and I >>> >> know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in >>> >> the same >>> >> boat. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND >>> >> definition >>> >> without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is >>> >> everyone >>> >> charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing >>> >> is not >>> >> readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. >>> >> No >>> >> Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge >>> >> Verizon. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Steve Barnes >>> >> >>> >> RC-WiFi.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> >> -------- >>> >> WISPA Wants You! 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