Blair, You must be reading my mind! Your post fits my scenario perfectly.
-RickG On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Blair Davis <the...@wmwisp.net> wrote: > Some simple numbers... > > $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was > paying out here. > > 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. > > $170 cost of bandwidth per user. > > Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. > > The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the > bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. > > These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard web > browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and won't > understand that. > > If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power to > run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. > > The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. That > way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust their usage > to what they are willing to pay for. > > Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of doing > business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or begin > billing our users for them, it will kill us. > > The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. > > Blair > > > > > Tom DeReggi wrote: > > Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired > world? > > > Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world". > > The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that. They are just > realistic about what they have available. > And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets > willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of equal > or greater value, to creat a WISP market. > > I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one > public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give money > to wireless companies so we can have slower service". Wireless will be a > part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service > sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and people, > so less people get left without being served, and more people get better > service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, consumers > will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant gratification > that can be gained today. > > WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or > impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end up > broke. > I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... > > Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years for an > ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance capabilty > upfront (broke :-). > We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating easements > with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy :-). > The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they also > grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, > because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more lazy, > and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing them > to work harder. > > The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the Truth > is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-) > > So.... WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford > today!!! > > There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance for > volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless > providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport providers > are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to do a > better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to > favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited > about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to accomplish > top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are > competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think > clever innovators should be able to fill it. > > $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" Americans > get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of money > to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of it > would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start > getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can you > go to get a peice of that $billion? > > Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant proposals > now. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Suitor" <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com> > <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > > > > Folks, > > I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation. This > thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis > together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the > market. > > What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they > offer Wireless, DSL & Fiber based Internet services in competition to > Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc) > along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the > entire spectrum of competition. As many of you may know Canada ranks in > the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest > OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th > with 19.6% penetration. > > I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model. For the > record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered > indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer a > 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at > $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the > first offer. All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer. > > What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a > sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems > to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up > rate in an area. This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which > was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average > real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX > customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that > we use to monitor production networks under a professional services > agreement). I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate the > maximum subscribers per sector. I then took the peak subs multiplied by > monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream per > sector. The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a > sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and other > site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE > required by the peak subscriber calculation. The ROI in months is the > CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU. > > I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model > that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the > SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier > using WiMAX. > > Cheers! > Kevin > > > NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a > WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential > services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers): > > Monthly Max Subs per > Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI > ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription > kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded > sector (months) > $ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25 > 640 $ 11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $ > 300,750 26.17949 > $ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70 > 229 $ 6,388.57 $ 76,662.86 $ > 115,607 18.09593 > $ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200 > 80 $ 3,036.00 $ 36,432.00 $ > 48,750 16.05731 > $ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 40 275 > 58 $ 2,498.91 $ 29,986.91 $ > 38,932 15.57953 > $ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425 > 38 $ 2,746.35 $ 32,956.24 $ > 29,691 10.81113 > > > Monthly Max Subs per > Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI > ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription > kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded > sector (months) > $ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33 > 480 $ 8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $ > 228,750 26.54944 > $ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93 > 171 $ 4,791.43 $ 57,497.14 $ > 89,893 18.76118 > $ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267 > 60 $ 2,277.00 $ 27,324.00 $ > 39,750 17.45718 > $ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 30 367 > 44 $ 1,874.18 $ 22,490.18 $ > 32,386 17.28027 > $ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567 > 28 $ 2,059.76 $ 24,717.18 $ > 25,456 12.35864 > > > Monthly Max Subs per > Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI > ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription > kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded > sector (months) > $ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 20 50 > 320 $ 5,744.00 $ 68,928.00 $ > 156,750 27.28935 > $ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 20 140 > 114 $ 3,194.29 $ 38,331.43 $ > 64,179 20.09168 > $ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 20 400 > 40 $ 1,518.00 $ 18,216.00 $ > 30,750 20.25692 > $ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 20 550 > 29 $ 1,249.45 $ 14,993.45 $ > 25,841 20.68175 > $ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 20 850 > 19 $ 1,373.18 $ 16,478.12 $ > 21,221 15.45365 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org > <wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:58 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > 2 megs is yesterday's news. > > U-Verse is 18/1.5 > FiOS is 50/20 > Charter has 60/5 > Comcast has 50/10 > > 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than > that. > > Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired > world? > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Kevin Suitor" <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com> > <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com> > Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > > > We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with > > > hundreds > > > of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink > > > and > > > some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps > downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per > sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. > > The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in > wireless networking. > > Best Regards, > Kevin > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org > <wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a > WiMAX > AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > > > It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base > station, > that only supports 30 subscribers. > > - > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org > <wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > I'm certainly interested in ptmp. > > The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? > marlon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> <g...@aeronetpr.com> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > > > > Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... > > Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp > > > Gino A. villarini...@aeronetpr.com > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org > <wireless-boun...@wispa.org>] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to > > > the > > > UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. > > Take care leon > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > > > I'm looking into this too. > > So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector > > > install > > > at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even > > > see > > > that tower.... > > Anyone have any better ideas? > marlon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> <g...@aeronetpr.com> > To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" <motor...@wispa.org> <motor...@wispa.org>; > "WISPA > > > General > > > List" > > > <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM > Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > > > > > Fellow operators: > > Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? > > Any updates on experiences with: > > Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, > Airspan ??? > > > Gino A. villarini...@aeronetpr.com > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---- > > > ---- > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---- > > > ---- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---- > > > ---- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---- > > > ---- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -------- > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -------- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
