George, Sounds great and mus be nice but there are no facilities in the boondocks! -RickG
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM, George Rogato <wi...@oregonfast.net>wrote: > Kinda high > If you are lucky and you have access to fiber consider this > > Cogent, if you buy a GigE port and commit to 200 megs, you can have it > for $5.00 per meg, or minimum of $1,000.00 per month and that comes with > a whopping 200 megs, if you need to exceed 200 megs, it's just $5.00 per > meg. > > If you get to $4,000 per month usage, then the price drops to $4.00 per > meg. > > George > > > Blair Davis wrote: > > Some simple numbers... > > > > $1700/month for 10Mbits. Much better than the $600 per 1.54Mbit I was > > paying out here. > > > > 1Mbit per Netflix or IPTV user. > > > > $170 cost of bandwidth per user. > > > > Users out here are not going to pay that. Period. > > > > The problem, out in the rural areas at least, is not delivering the > > bandwidth, it is getting it at a reasonable cost. > > > > These apps use an order of magnitude more bandwidth than the standard > > web browsing and email apps we are used to. But the users don't and > > won't understand that. > > > > If you went to buy a new TV and it used an order of magnitude more power > > to run it, your electric bill would soon show you the error of your ways. > > > > The only real solution to this problem is to move to per bit pricing. > > That way, users will see the cost of what they are doing and adjust > > their usage to what they are willing to pay for. > > > > Netflix, IPTV and other apps like them simply shift the their cost of > > doing business to us. Unless we either refuse to support these apps, or > > begin billing our users for them, it will kill us. > > > > The cable and dsl providers are starting to figure this out. > > > > Blair > > > > > > > > Tom DeReggi wrote: > >>> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired > >>> world? > >>> > >> > >> Depends who you are referring by stating "wireless world". > >> > >> The WISP providers are surely NOT "happy" with that. They are just > >> realistic about what they have available. > >> And they are creative enough to understand that there are still markets > >> willing to deal with that, because WISPs have other things to offer of > equal > >> or greater value, to creat a WISP market. > >> > >> I'm also not sure the public is "happy" with that. I haven't heard one > >> public advocate at Broadband public meetings advocating "Please give > money > >> to wireless companies so we can have slower service". Wireless will be > a > >> part of Stimulus grants because... We can argue we'll get you service > >> sooner, and we'll stretch the dollar further to serve more areas and > people, > >> so less people get left without being served, and more people get better > >> service than they currently have. In the long run, with Wireless, > consumers > >> will have to compromise for less, in exchange for the instant > gratification > >> that can be gained today. > >> > >> WISPs deal with it because comparatively they are either broke, lazy, or > >> impatient, in order to meet demand. Or I should say, don't want to end > up > >> broke. > >> I'm not meaning to be derogatory in using those terms. What I mean is... > >> > >> Sure we'd all like to lay fiber. We just don't want to wait 20 years > for an > >> ROI (impatient :-). We don't have millions and billions of Finance > capabilty > >> upfront (broke :-). > >> We don't want to spend years trying to get permits and negotiating > easements > >> with entities that care less about advancing our cause quickly (lazy > :-). > >> The truth is Monopolies are willing to do all these things. But they > also > >> grudgingly backout of their committments and delay as long as possible, > >> because honestly they don't want to do it either, and are even more > lazy, > >> and clearly have all the time in the world, without competition forcing > them > >> to work harder. > >> > >> The truth is, Wireless providers DO NEED faster equipment. And the > Truth > >> is, we really aren't "lazy". (I was just kidding before :-) > >> > >> So.... WiMax vendors, Make us faster equipment!!! That we can Afford > >> today!!! > >> > >> There is a lot of grant money comming up this year. Here is your chance > for > >> volume orders, from the WISP market. Give us a reason to stay wireless > >> providers and not to become a fiber provider. Backhaul transport > providers > >> are doing their part. But I think last mile manufacturers still have to > do a > >> better job. But more importantly give grant Decission makers a reason to > >> favor wireless. Give them speeds that public advocates will be excited > >> about. And give us price points that will let us do microcells to > accomplish > >> top penetration. Wimax isn;t competing against wifi anymore, they are > >> competing against fiber. I admit, Its a tall order to fill. But I think > >> clever innovators should be able to fill it. > >> > >> $7 billion is not a lot to come anywhere close to helping "All" > Americans > >> get next generation broadband. But $7 billion is a hech of a lot of > money > >> to inject into an ISP manufacturer industry. Lets just say $1 billion of > it > >> would go to Wireless infrastructure. Thats a lot of gear. Lets start > >> getting creative with those volume order low price offers? How low can > you > >> go to get a peice of that $billion? > >> > >> Manufacturers, Let us know! The industry is writing their grant > proposals > >> now. > >> > >> Tom DeReggi > >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kevin Suitor" <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com> > >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:23 PM > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >> > >> > >> > >>> Folks, > >>> > >>> I seem to have too much time on my hands since I'm on vacation. This > >>> thread prompted me to put a quick back of the napkin ROI analysis > >>> together to see which service options I'd want to be pushing on the > >>> market. > >>> > >>> What I did was review Bell Canada's service offer - why, because they > >>> offer Wireless, DSL & Fiber based Internet services in competition to > >>> Rogers Cable and Cogeco Cable (ON) and Videotron and Cogeco Cable(Qc) > >>> along with a variety of WISPs, satellite providers, in other words the > >>> entire spectrum of competition. As many of you may know Canada ranks > in > >>> the top 10 worldwide for broadband penetration according to the latest > >>> OECD rankings with 23.8% BB penetration, the United States ranked 15th > >>> with 19.6% penetration. > >>> > >>> I opted not to include their wireless offer in the model. For the > >>> record their 512/512 Portable Internet service using an AC powered > >>> indoor CPE as the terminal device selling for $17.95/month; they offer > a > >>> 2000/800 Rural service with either indoor or outdoor CPE beginning at > >>> $40/month; and a 3000/1000 Portable using the same indoor CPE as in the > >>> first offer. All CPE are sold at $99 to the customer. > >>> > >>> What I've done is outline the UL/DL speeds, cost per month, and a > >>> sliding scale of oversubscription rates (actual rate used by Bell seems > >>> to be between 20 and 40 based upon historical data depending on take-up > >>> rate in an area. This then generates a kbps / subscriber figure which > >>> was then divided into the capacity per sector (I'm using the average > >>> real world sector capacity from our worldwide base of 7 MHz RedMAX > >>> customers as reported by our Redline Management Suite application that > >>> we use to monitor production networks under a professional services > >>> agreement). I then divided this by the avg kbps/client to calculate > the > >>> maximum subscribers per sector. I then took the peak subs multiplied > by > >>> monthly ARPU to calculate the monthly and annual peak revenue stream > per > >>> sector. The required CAPEX per sector was calculated based upon a > >>> sector controller, shared common costs (GPS, UPS, tower climb, and > other > >>> site acquisition costs - WW avg.) and the cost of the number of CPE > >>> required by the peak subscriber calculation. The ROI in months is the > >>> CAPEX divided by the monthly ARPU. > >>> > >>> I've highlighted the sweet spot avg 18 month ROI lines in each model > >>> that indicates with between 19 and 229 subscribers, depending upon the > >>> SLA you'd be able to achieve and ROI acceptable to almost any financier > >>> using WiMAX. > >>> > >>> Cheers! > >>> Kevin > >>> > >>> > >>> NOTE: Modeled upon Bell Canada's Internet Service offer when using a > >>> WiMAX BTS to deliver the stated SLAs (all are best effort, residential > >>> services on a 7 MHz channel with mix of LOS and NLOS customers): > >>> > >>> Monthly Max Subs per > >>> Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI > >>> ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription > >>> kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded > >>> sector (months) > >>> $ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 40 25 > >>> 640 $ 11,488.00 $ 137,856.00 $ > >>> 300,750 26.17949 > >>> $ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 40 70 > >>> 229 $ 6,388.57 $ 76,662.86 $ > >>> 115,607 18.09593 > >>> $ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 40 200 > >>> 80 $ 3,036.00 $ 36,432.00 $ > >>> 48,750 16.05731 > >>> $ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 40 275 > >>> 58 $ 2,498.91 $ 29,986.91 $ > >>> 38,932 15.57953 > >>> $ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 40 425 > >>> 38 $ 2,746.35 $ 32,956.24 $ > >>> 29,691 10.81113 > >>> > >>> > >>> Monthly Max Subs per > >>> Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI > >>> ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription > >>> kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded > >>> sector (months) > >>> $ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 30 33 > >>> 480 $ 8,616.00 $ 103,392.00 $ > >>> 228,750 26.54944 > >>> $ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 30 93 > >>> 171 $ 4,791.43 $ 57,497.14 $ > >>> 89,893 18.76118 > >>> $ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 30 267 > >>> 60 $ 2,277.00 $ 27,324.00 $ > >>> 39,750 17.45718 > >>> $ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 30 367 > >>> 44 $ 1,874.18 $ 22,490.18 $ > >>> 32,386 17.28027 > >>> $ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 30 567 > >>> 28 $ 2,059.76 $ 24,717.18 $ > >>> 25,456 12.35864 > >>> > >>> > >>> Monthly Max Subs per > >>> Sector Monthly ARPU / Annual ARPU / Required CAPEX / ROI > >>> ARPU kbps Down kbps Up Total kbps Oversubscription > >>> kbps Required/Sub 16000 loaded sector loaded sector loaded > >>> sector (months) > >>> $ 17.95 Essential 500 500 1000 20 50 > >>> 320 $ 5,744.00 $ 68,928.00 $ > >>> 156,750 27.28935 > >>> $ 27.95 Essential+ 2000 800 2800 20 140 > >>> 114 $ 3,194.29 $ 38,331.43 $ > >>> 64,179 20.09168 > >>> $ 37.95 Performance 7000 1000 8000 20 400 > >>> 40 $ 1,518.00 $ 18,216.00 $ > >>> 30,750 20.25692 > >>> $ 42.95 MAX10 10000 1000 11000 20 550 > >>> 29 $ 1,249.45 $ 14,993.45 $ > >>> 25,841 20.68175 > >>> $ 72.95 MAX16 16000 1000 17000 20 850 > >>> 19 $ 1,373.18 $ 16,478.12 $ > >>> 21,221 15.45365 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > >>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett > >>> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:58 PM > >>> To: WISPA General List > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>> > >>> 2 megs is yesterday's news. > >>> > >>> U-Verse is 18/1.5 > >>> FiOS is 50/20 > >>> Charter has 60/5 > >>> Comcast has 50/10 > >>> > >>> 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than > >>> that. > >>> > >>> Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired > >>> world? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- > >>> Mike Hammett > >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >>> http://www.ics-il.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> From: "Kevin Suitor" <ksui...@redlinecommunications.com> > >>> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM > >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>> > >>> > >>>> We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with > >>>> > >>> hundreds > >>> > >>>> of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink > >>>> > >>> and > >>> > >>>> some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps > >>>> downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per > >>>> sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. > >>>> > >>>> The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in > >>>> wireless networking. > >>>> > >>>> Best Regards, > >>>> Kevin > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >>>> > >>> On > >>> > >>>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett > >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM > >>>> To: WISPA General List > >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>>> > >>>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a > >>>> WiMAX > >>>> AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- > >>>> Mike Hammett > >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions > >>>> http://www.ics-il.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------- > >>>> From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM > >>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base > >>>>> station, > >>>>> that only supports 30 subscribers. > >>>>> > >>>>> - > >>>>> > >>>>> Jeff > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >>>>> > >>>> On > >>>> > >>>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM > >>>>> To: WISPA General List > >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp. > >>>>> > >>>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? > >>>>> marlon > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> > >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Gino A. Villarini > >>>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com > >>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > >>>>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org > ] > >>>>>> > >>>> On > >>>> > >>>>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM > >>>>>> To: WISPA General List > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to > >>>>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Take care leon > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'm looking into this too. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector > >>>>>>> > >>> install > >>> > >>>>>>> at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even > >>>>>>> > >>> see > >>> > >>>>>>> that tower.... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Anyone have any better ideas? > >>>>>>> marlon > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> > >>>>>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" <motor...@wispa.org>; "WISPA > >>>>>>> > >>>> General > >>>> > >>>>>> List" > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> <wireless@wispa.org> > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM > >>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Fellow operators: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Any updates on experiences with: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, > >>>>>>>> Airspan ??? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Gino A. Villarini > >>>>>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com > >>>>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > >>>>>>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>>>> -------- > >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>>>> -------- > >>>>>> > >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> ---- > >>>> > >>>>> ---- > >>>>> > >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> ---- > >>>> > >>>>> ---- > >>>>> > >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> ---- > >>>> > >>>>> ---- > >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> ---- > >>>> > >>>>> ---- > >>>>> > >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>> > >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>> > >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> -------- > >>>> > >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> -------- > >>>> > >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>> > >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>> > >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> -------- > >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>>> -------- > >>>> > >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>> > >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>> > >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> -------- > >>> > >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> -------- > >>> > >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>> > >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>> > >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>> > >> > >> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> -------- > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> -------- > >>> > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>> > >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>> > >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>> > >>> > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> WISPA Wants You! 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